Fri, Jul 16, 2004, 9:59am From: lid (J.=A0Clarke) put
out some stuff I'll reply to one part at a time:
Because having spent a fair part of my life out of sight of land I have
a great respect for the ability of the sea, lake, river, stream, or pond
to damage anything that is floating on it.

That's a Hell of a blanket statement. Damage anything floating?
Sure, the Titanic sank on it's maiden voyage, but now the theory is a
fire in a cola bunker, not hitting an iceburg did it. Unlss your'r out
in the middle of the ocean, most people with any sense head for shore if
a storm comes up and they're in a boat.

It is a truism that the sea can kill any ship and the wise sailor gives
it as little help in that endeavor as he can.

That's why you go ashore, if you can.

Ever chip through the rust on a warship, built from the finest steel in
the world, and covered with high-quality marine enamel from the time
that it was first built

That, only one of the many reasons I didn't join the Navy.

(the Navy will spend for good paint because they don't like to have
their ships turn to rust)

From the lowest bideder.

90 feet above the waterline where a landlubber would assume that it
never gets exposed to salt water,

Crossed the posd twice, in troopships, seen spray go completely
over the entire ship.

and find after chipping through an inch and a half of rust that there
wasn't anything there but rust?

Then apparently neither the paint, or the steel, were that high
quality.

First time you do that you lose all faith in the notion that distance
above the waterline and protective coatings guarantee that the material
will never be wet.

I never had that faith in the first place. A 2 1/2 ton truck full
of troops gets a flat, you're already on land. A ship gets a hole, you
might be miles from land. Hehehe

It's when things get abnormal that people die. In any case, the
particular part that he was replacing was rotted out. That means that it
was kept wet for a fair amount of time.

No, it doesn't. It means it was exposed to the right conditions to
make it rot.

Resorcinol glue _is_ "wood glue". It's just truly waterproof wood glue.

However, it is not used in day-to-day use, for woodworking. It is
normally used in boatbuilding.

Now you see, there I have the advantage of you because I have learned in
the real world that (a) paint, varnish, etc, canot be counted on to keep
the underlying surface dry when it is covered by standing water and (b)
even the very expensive multipart coatings have a limited service life
in a marine environment. If the "varnish or other protective coating"
will keep moisture away from the glue" then why did the wood rot out in
the first place? Or will it just magically keep moisture away from the
glue and not from the surrounding wood?

And, you think no one else has learned any of that? That's one
reason for the words revarnish, repaint, etc. But, I doubt there's
gonna be a whole lot of standing water on a canoe gunnel. By the way,
epoxy is not 100% waterproof, as apparently stell isn't either. Epoxy
will eventually let water thru. Rescorcinal I don't know about. And,
don't care.

I don't know anyone who was stupid enough to use PVA glue in a stressed
joint on a boat.

Ah, here's where you confused me. You see, you repied to Toller,
who asked about using Titebond.
"Thu, Jul 15, 2004, 11:48pm From: lid (J.=A0Clarke)
toller wrote:
snip 2) Is Titebond2 adequate, or should I use epoxy?
To which you replied:
On a canoe, I'd use resorcinol myself, but epoxy should be fine. I
wouldn't trust _any_ PVA glue on a stressed part of any boat. Having
your glue let go at sea can ruin your whole day snip
"
That's where I got PVA. Well, Titebond II is a aliphatic resin
glue, not a PVA glue. I would say Titebond II, clamped for 24 hours,
should work.

However I do remember a laminated tiller, nicely carved by a local
artisan and glued together with what he assured us was "waterproof
glue", lying on the sole of the cockpit completely delaminated. And that
tiller was under no stress to speak of and was subject to less water
exposure than a canoe gunwale when it came apart.

Well, that statement sure leaves a lnot of information missing.
Type of wood, type of glue, clamped, clamp time, protective coating,
etc.

I saw a delaminated plywood sign, no paint or protective coating.
Took about 5 years outside to deliaminate.

Look, if you want to stick your neck out that's fine, but when you start
advising other people to do dangerous things while pretending they are
not dangerous you're
behaving irresponsibly.

Well, I wasn't aware that a repair to a canoe gunnel, using
Titebond II would be a life-threatening experience.

Grok the concept--bad advice about how to use a table saw may cost
somebody a finger. Bad advice about how to fix a boat can cost several
people their lives.

I don't recall telling anyone how to use a table saw. i also don't
recall telling anyone how to fix a boat. I do think Titebond II would
suffice in the repair of the canoe gunnel.

If you're _not_ a "boatbuilding expert" then perhaps you should not be
quite so quick to criticize the opinions of others who have relevant
experience.

No, I'm not an expert, few people are, at anything. I also wasn't
aware that you are. You might have said.

Hmm, just reread your statement. Relevant experience. An
nteresting statement. Being in the Navy is relevant? If that's so, it's
an interesting fact, that if you count all floating craft, of all sizes,
Disney is suppoed to have the fifth largest navy in the world.

Regardless, people in canoes, or small boats should be wearing
approve floatation devises.

I doubt that the Titebond folks are paying you to advocate the use of
their product in boatbuilding, so why are you so upset about the notion
that it is not suited to that purpose?

They aren't, I just like Titebond II. Found it meets my needs
nicely. And, I'm not advocating it's use in boatbuilding. I think it
would work for the repair in question. You apparently seem to have a
major problem with that concept. Sure, resorcinal, and epoxy will work,
they'd both be overkill too. I know of a number of people who build
boats and/or canoes for money that wouldn't glue at all, just screws for
holding - with varnish coat, of course, for protection.

My personal favorites for boatbuilding are strip built, and tack
and tape (using epoxy and fibreglass).

I recently read of a 50' steam boat, originally built in the 1890s.
The hull was four layers of mahogany, copper wire sewn. It was recently
"restored". The restorer apparently couldn't make it waterproof again,
so used epoxy between the layers. Just found that interesting, so
tossed it out there.

A correct statement would be that I would use Titebond II IN
boatbuilding. But, not FOR boatbuilding. In plainer language, I would
use it in some places, but NOT in critical areas.

JOAT

We've got a lot of experience of not having any experience.
- Nanny Ogg