On 21/11/2013 08:54, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 20/11/2013 17:02, harryagain wrote:
"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 20/11/2013 09:38, Terry Fields wrote:
...

"ice caps are shrinking"

Arctic sea ice has *increased* this summer...

There's no lies you won't tell is there?
http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2013/01/

http://my.firedoglake.com/weatherdem...-above-normal/


Do try to get your attributions right. I only mentioned the
Antarctic. However, if you look at this year's figures, instead
of last year's that you quote, you will see that Terry Fields
was correct:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-29-year.html


Daily Mail? Riiiight. You believe journalists?

That was simply the first source I found. As John Rumm has posted, there
are others.

This year is 2013 unless you are in a time warp.

Your point being what? That article was published 8 September 2013 and
updated 28 September 2013. The satellite images are clearly marked, so
you can tell the difference between 2012 and 2013.

Even then one year would be just a blip.

Which would also be true of 2012. The historical evidence is that Arctic
ice has always been very variable.

This is a report to the Admiralty from 1817:

€œIt will without doubt have come to your Lordships knowledge that a
considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have
taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the
cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern
latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two
years, greatly abated.

Mr. Scoresby, a very intelligent young man who commands a whaling vessel
from Whitby observed last year that 2000 square leagues of ice with
which the Greenland Seas between the latitudes of 74° and 80°N have been
hitherto covered, has in the last two years entirely disappeared. The
same person who has never been before able to penetrate to the westward
of the Meridian of Greenwich in these latitudes was this year able to
proceed to 10°, 30€²W where he saw the coast of East Greenland and
entertained no doubt of being able to reach the land had not his duty to
his employers made it necessary for him to abandon the undertaking.

This, with information of a similar nature derived from other sources;
the unusual abundance of ice islands that have during the last two
summers been brought by currents from Davies Streights (sic) into the
Atlantic.

The ice which has this year surrounded the northern coast of Ireland (
see footnotes1) in unusual quantity and remained there unthawed till the
middle of August, with the floods which have during the whole summer
inundated all those parts of Germany where rivers have their sources in
snowy mountains.

This affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and
give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more
accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries
may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of
science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce
of distant nations.€�

In 2010, a ship was recovered from an area that had previously been
classed as unreachable due to sea ice. even with modern icebreakers.
However, that sailing ship had reached the area in 1853.

Then there is this report, from 1922, which reports very similar
conditions to recent years:

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/...0-11-0589a.pdf

Colin Bignell