On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 20:57:50 +0000, Roger Chapman
wrote:
Take another look at the net contributions pages.
You are forgetting that Harry was implying that the people who take
most out of the EU are "basket case ex commie countries", whereas if
you look at the very page you suggest, with the exception of Poland
the ex-communist countries take out much less than 'western' european
countries, such as Portugal, Spain, and Greece.
They are all in the
negative tail. It is there in black and white and nothing you can say
will alter the facts how ever hard you try.
I have merely shown that Harry was, as usual, arguing from a position
of uninformed bigotry rather than informed opinion. Nothing that has
been said since by either of you has altered that.
There is no support for your position. The net contributions page must
take into account the rebate otherwise the contributions wouldn't be net.
Try adding up the various components and see if you can make sense of
them. In 2007, from the graphs approximately or as actually stated in
the text, the UK:
Paid*: 13.5bn
Rec'd: 7.5bn
Rebate: 5.2bn
Therefore the net contribution should either be ...
13.5 - 7.5 - 5.2 = 0.8bn (with rebate)
.... or ...
13.5 - 7.5 = 6bn (without rebate)
.... whereas according to the Net Contributions it was actually 3.5bn.
* Although the legend on this graph states "including UK rebate", it
is not clear whether this means other countries' payments towards the
UK rebate and/or the UK receipt of said rebate.
"There are some variations however. Thanks to its rebate, the UK pays a
smaller proportion of its GNI than other countries."
Exactly, so Harry's original claim was even more wrong than I
originally proved.
As below, this point stands.
The UK pays less than it otherwise would but it is still a major
contributor and gets much less back than it pays in.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036802.stm
"Even taking into account the rebate, the UK is one of the largest net
contributors to the EU budget. Had it not been for the rebate, its net
contribution would have been even bigger than Germany's in 2007."
It gets less back than it pays in, but not 'much less', particularly
when population is taken into account. On the net contributions by
population page, the only contributing countries who contribute
significantly less than us per head are France and Italy, who pay half
the UK rebate between them, and Finland. And as you yourself have
pointed out, the UK's contributions in terms of its GNI are the
smallest in the entire EU.
Harry's claims were bigotry, nothing more, nothing less.
You have proved nothing other than you are as good as TFP in arguing
that black is really white when it suits your purpose and ignoring
anything that doesn't. You even have another of his traits - ignoring
and editing out particular points you don't have an answer to. Recognise
this bit you silently snipped?
Bah! Humbug!
"How about a little bit of that logic you are so keen on. It is
nonsensical to draw up a table for net contributions if the rebate is
not included."
I still await it from you.
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