On 10/4/2013 5:05 PM, westom wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2013 11:22:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
And you have two EE's here, Bud and myself, telling you you're
friend is wrong. But more importantly, you have the IEEE
surge protection guide that was written by not just electrical
engineers, but a half dozen or so who are experts in surge
protection.

IEEE papers even say plug-in protectors alone (no properly earthed 'whole
house' protector) can make damage to appliances easier. I even quoted
Martzloff's paper that says that.

With minimal intelligence westom would understand what the sources were
saying - use a multiport protector where all wires go through the protector.

Simple question:
- Why did Martzloff say in this paper "One solution. illustrated in this
paper, is the insertion of a properly designed [multiport plug-in surge
protector]"?

Still not answered.


Calling bud an EE is bogus. He did not even know many concepts taught
in first semester EE courses. He did not even know about wire impedance.

Westom can't read anything that violates his simple ideas of protection.
If he could he would have read the explanation of why the energy at a
plug-in protector is quite small. I have repeated the explanation (which
comes form research by Martzloff) many times. One of the reasons is the
impedance of the branch circuit wiring.

He did not know concepts that must be known to understand what protectors really do.

Westom can't figure out what plug-in protectors do - even when it is
clearly explained in the IEEE surge guide starting page 30.

He claimed that a protector somehow makes energy just disappear.

I explain (from Martzloff's research) where the energy goes.

Since it violates westoms very simple ideas he can't understand, and
thinks it is magic.


Plug-in protectors can contribute only if the always required earthing and
a 'whole house' protector exist.

Nonsense.

So he posts insults rather than quote facts and numbers from Martzloff and
other industry professional.

What a joke.

I quote Martzloff and industry professionals, like the IEEE surge guide.
All say plug-in protectors are effective.

Other simple questions westom never answers:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
protectors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in protectors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in protector?


Never once does he or you post a single plug-in protector specification
numbers that defines protection from typically destructive surges.

Many people have posted specs. Always ignored by westom. Then westom
always repeats his lie.

For good reason. No manufacturer makes that numeric claim.

Nonsense.

Some manufacturers even have protected equipment warranties.


In every case, what do professionals define as essential for protection? Earth ground.

Everyone is in favor of earthing electrical systems.

The question is whether plug-in protectors are effective. Both the IEEE
and NIST say they are.


IEEE Guide repeatedly says why effective protector are earthed. Page 33
figure 8 show a plug-in protector earthing a surge 8000 volts destructively
through nearby appliances ... because that surge was not earthed BEFORE entering
the building. That protector earthed a surges on the best path - 8000 volts
destructively through TV2.

Repeating for the 3rd time:

Voltage at TV2 without a protector at TV1 - 10,000V.
Voltage at TV2 with a protector at TV1 - 8,000V.
Never explained - how does the protector at TV1 damage TV2.

And
- How would a service panel protector provide any protection in this
example? It wouldn't. The village idiot's favorite example is one where
his service panel protector does not protect.

And
- Why does the IEEE guide say in this example "the only effective way of
protecting the equipment is to use a multiport [plug-in] protector"?

Westom still has no answers for simple questions.


For real science read the IEEE and NIST surge guides. Both say plug-in
protectors are effective.

Then read the sources that agree with westom that plug-in protectors do
NOT work. There are none.