On Saturday, October 5, 2013 8:57:28 AM UTC-4, westom wrote:
On Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:16:59 AM UTC-4, wrote:

According to you, once a surge is earthed by that one surge protector

at the panel, there is no more surge. End of story.



Again you read only enough to misrepresent, misunderstand, or just confuse others. I never said that. You fear to admit that advertising myths had easily manipulated you.

Here you are saying it:

" Routine is protection from direct lightning strikes when a protector connects low impedance to earth. And the numbers that say so. Direct lightning strikes are typically about 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Because unlike power strips, one 'whole house' protector is protection for all types of surges including direct lightning strikes.

"Therefore every facility that cannot have damage always connects destructive surges to earth outside the building - either by a wire or via a 'whole house' protector. Only then is one surge every seven years or one surge every 30 years made irrelevant."

" It works like a wire. It connects hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to earth outside the building. Then even power strip protectors (that only claim to absorb hundreds of joules) are protected. "

" Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Either harmlessly in earth (damped out in the first six feet). "

" Protection means a surge current is not inside the house"

"The only solution used in every facility that cannot have damage is earthing."




All appliances already contain significant protection.

According to you, that's impossible because you claim no surge
protection is impossible without an earth ground. Does that TV
have it's own built-in earth ground? Then how can it be that the
MOVs inside the TV work, but those inside a plug-in surge protector
that are of far higher capacity, can't because they have no earth
ground? That question has been asked for years, but never answered.

Which would you rather have handle most of a surge that shows up
at an appliance? The small MOV inside the $1500 TV, or the ones
an order of magnitude larger in the $15 plug-in surge protector
BEFORE the TV? MOVs have a limited life. I'd rather replace the
$15 surge strip than the $1500 TV.



A surge (ie lightning, utility switching, squirrel) properly earthed before entering a building is then so tiny as to not overwhelm protection already inside appliances. An earthed surge is so tiny as to be noise.

STill waiting for an answer to that one too. You claimed here in this
thread that a lightning surge showing up at the whole house surge protector
is 20K amps. You know Ohm's Law? What do you think the typical resistance
from that surge protector to earth is, ie through it's connection via a
ground round? Let's assume it's 1 ohm, which is ridiculously low, not
easily achievable, not required by code. V=IR. You now have 20K volts
at the panel. How is that not going to be "so tiny" that it's just noise?
And that assumes 1 ohm of resistance. The resistance is going to be higher,
the surge is fast rising, so the impedance is going to be much higher.
How does 20K amps through impedance generate just "tiny noise"?
Another very basic question added to the list







A surge properly earthed BEFORE entering a building means wire separation between protector and appliances further increases protection.

As explained but ignored previously, any surge with or without an
earth surged protector is going to be diminished the longer the
wire run because the wire has capacitance, inductance and resistance.
The problem is that the "reduction" is what's "very tiny" and Ashton's
6 ft of wire stopping a surge is pure BS.



Therefore telcos want their $multi-million computers located something less than 50 meters distant from 'whole house' protectors.

Now it's less than 50M? Good grief. I thought farther was better.
Why don't they make it 500M?
What have they done forever with a SLIC or similar piece of eqpt?
A SLIC is similar to a mini-switch, it terminates circuits from a
few hundred homes, puts them on a T1 or similar, ie concentrating
them before they get to a CO? That kind of gear sits in a refrigerator
size cabinet, at the side of the road. There is no 50M, yet it's
protected. Clue: They use a tiered protection strategy, exactly
as recommended by all those knowledgable in the industry. Same
tiered concept as shown in the IEEE guide, which you ignore.



Why do telcos suffer maybe 100 surges per storm without damage? Every incoming wire is earthed. Separation between computer and protector increases protection. Then a surge is so tiny as to never damage switching computers.



See the above. They use a tiered strategy, just like the IEEE guide
shows. That strategy includes surge protection on the line cards in
the switch itself. How is that possible, if no protection is possible
without direct earth ground? Always asked, never answered.

Here's one to add to your list. Why do major manufacturers of
electrical gear, the big names you cite who make whole house type
surge protectors also sell other surge protecting devices that they
recommend be used as part of a tiered strategy. You know,
like the one Oren has on his AC unit, that you finally said was OK.
How can they work, with no direct earth ground of their own? Why
do some of those same manufacturers, eg GE, also sell plug-ins?



Page 33 figure 8 - damage because the surge was not earthed by a 'whole house' protector. Once earthed, then separation between appliance and protector increases protection.


Page 33 fig 8 shows a lot of wire running through the house to
TV2, maybe 50 or 100 ft, not just 6 ft. It still gets damaged by
a surge. TV1, with a plug-in surge protector is not damaged. Then
the IEEE guide states:

"A second multi-port protector as shown in Fig. 7 is required to protect TV2"

Your references? Oh, you have no references.