On Friday, September 6, 2013 2:45:08 PM UTC-4, mcadchri wrote:
replying to , mcadchri wrote:

trader4 wrote:



+1

Frequently claimed here, but I've yet to see one example of

an insurance company doing it. And he's also wrong on another

aspect. There is absolutely nothing preventing people in most

parts of the country from doing repairs in their own home

themselves without being licensed. You are frequently required to get

a permit, depending on what you are doing. But even here in the

Peoples Republic of NJ, you can do work on your own home, without

being licensed.







I'm going to try and reply to the previous two comments in this section

here so bear with me. As far as evidence is concerned, only what you learn

from speaking with customers and adjusters on the job. You're more than

welcome to try to read through the hundreds of pages of legal jargon in

your homeowner's insurance policy manual to find the specifics, but I'll

pass. We all do know though that when a large claim is made an adjuster

comes out to do an investigation (or the insurance company sends a

licensed professional on their behalf). This is to find out what caused

the leak (in this example of a shower valve leak). If they conclude that

the valve body itself is the cause of the leak, then of course they will

pay because this is what the insurance is for. However, if it is

determined that one of the sweats (copper + silver + copper fusions

linking the valve body to the pipe) is at fault for the cause of the water

they are going to question the owner on who installed the valve. This step

is because if another person is at faulty for shoddy work, they'll want

them to pay.

What the insurance company does in that case is to pay the
claim to the homeowner and then if they believe they have
a claim against the plumber who did the work, they go after
them to recover. That is very different from what you stated,
which is that they deny the claim.



That's why professional companies also carry insurance

policies. Every insurance company is different on how far they deem

reasonable to investigate, normally depending on the overall cost of the

repair. The model/identity number of the valve can be easily traced to

show when it was purchased. This can be compared to the tenure of the

homeowner in the residence. You can see where this goes.
So you see, it

all depends on the company. Nothing is black and white, we all know that.

The problem with your statement is that you're making the assumption that

the VALVE is the problem, but in most cases it's the INSTALLATION.



To the second comment, I never stated that a person could not do it

themselves. Of course they can. That is every home owner's right. As long

as there's no HOA a home owner can do whatever they wish to their home.

But you said or at least strongly implied, that if they did it themselves and it fails because something wasn't done right, then the insurance company won't pay the claim, because they were unlicensed.


"The only way around this is to have an unlicensed individual
(handyman, do-it-yourselfer) perform the repair. If you do this though you
are rolling the dice on whether or not this repair will be done properly.
If, let's say, your handyman replaces the valve and does a shoddy job and
the valve bursts 3 months after installation, any damage to floors, walls,
ceilings, etc., will be the responsibility of the homeowner to fix out of
pocket. The insurance company will disregard the claim because your device
was not installed by a state licensed industry professional."

That is what has been claimed here many times. It seems rather
odd. You can be an idiot and leave a pot of oil burning on the stove,
it burns the whole house down and they pay. You leave a
window open, it rains, the house gets damaged, they pay. But you
put a water valve in and it leaks and they aren't going to pay
because you're not licensed? Maybe it's happened, but I'd
like to see an example.







And yes, a homeowner can pull their own permit in order to perform these

tasks. But a permit couples with an inspection to ensure it is done

properly and in accordance with city code.



There is only a permit pulled if it's necessary. There are all
kinds of repairs being done by homeowners in various parts of
the country that require no permit.





Somehow we got off track and we are now talking about people doing their

own work. That's not at all what the question was or what the thread is

about. The question was is it legal for a Plumber to install a 2 or 3

handle valve that is not pressure balance or containing thermostatic

controlled. The simple answer is this: A LICENSED PLUMBING PROFESSIONAL

CAN NOT PERFORM THIS ACTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE,

INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE, OR ASSE 1016; THEREFORE THE INSTALLATION OF

SUCH A DEVICE PUTS THE LICENSE OF THE PLUMBER PROFESSIONAL AT RISK OF

TERMINATION.


I would think that would be true if the AHJ has adopted
that part of the code. Not saying it probably isn't now in
force across most of the USA, especially the populated parts,
but do you know what every backwater community everywhere
has done?






But if you want to put it in your home, go ahead. It's your home. You just

probably won't find an experienced licensed plumber, you know the people

who do this work for a living and are educated in it, who will risk his

license to do it for you. Hope this helps!



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