On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:21:29 -0400, Norminn
wrote:

On 8/24/2013 1:03 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:30:25 PM UTC-4, NorMinn wrote:
On 8/23/2013 10:32 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 16:43:01 -0700, Norminn wrote:



On 8/22/2013 10:30 AM, RobertMacy wrote:

Ok, guys, here's the challenge: What to do to prevent brush strokes.

And, don't tell me roll it on, because that just makes the 'brush'

strokes different, less controllable, and a giant mess if not careful.





Anything can be a giant mess if not careful...



Problem: After painting, the wall looks like corduroy! Using 'high

quality' paint from Dunn Edwards. I'm fighting brush strokes like gang

busters! Perhaps, it is because the paint is a bit tacky within 10

seconds, and 'dry' to the touch within a minute !! No wonder the paint

can't flatten BEFORE it's dry!



Dry within a minute? Never heard of an interior paint drying that

fast...is this new, fresh, well mixed, applied at temp./surface

according to label instructions? Sun or wind? Interior or exterior?

Drywall?



Actions to date:

I added Floetrol, from Home Depot. That, just changed the color a bit.

and cost a lot. Seems like coating the wall with Floetrol and a little

paint.

I added Glass Cleaner, cheap from Walmart, Not bad, getting closer.



Glass cleaner?!??



Almost works.

Have not tried adding a bit of distilled water, yet.



What does the label say?





Background:

Consider the Dunn Edwards paint left by the painters circa 2010 - use

sparingly, keep for perfect matching, call it Paint A

Also, consider the 'new' Dunn Edwards paint same color, but they admit

to 'slight' change in color nomenclature, call it Paint B.



Dunn Edwards is a brand. Which product(s) are you using?



Smell of Paint A is pungent, rarely have to stir it in its 5 gal bucket,

and NEVER leaves a paint stroke. That stuff comes out FLAT!



Smell of Paint B is pungent [but different], have to stir each day

before use, and ALWAYS leaves paint strokes.





Need a solution:

What I need is a 'wetting' chemical that makes/allows the paint to go

flat BEFORE it dries.

Should I add Jet-Dri?



What does the label say? How does the label dry/cure time compare to

your results? If you have followed the label and results are bad,

contact the paint store (not HD or Lowes, I hope) or the mfg. Let us

know what you find out.



This is interesting:

http://www.dunnedwards.com/Homeowner...x?problemid=19









Glass Cleaner? Back in the 70's then living in California, when water

base was just gaining foothold, I fought brush strokes, gumming, and

basically thought the stuff was some kind of rip off. UNTIL! I used some

of our Easy Off Window Cleaner, came in a yellow can, cleaning glass it

never left a streak, beat Windex hands down [Easy Off corp discontinued

the product !!] Originally, if I found a run [usually around some odd

structure shape where the brush squeegeed too much paint] I was screwed.

Had to wait hours and hours to dry, then sand down and recoat to remove

the run. Also, continually fought 'gumming' could not brush out a 'bad'

stroke without doing damage to the 'wet' paint. Outof desparation, I

sprayed EasyOff Window Cleaner onto the surface and it magically turned

the paint back into a liquid - I could take out a run, flatten a stroke,

rework, essentially do ANYTHING I wanted to the water base paint. I

found I could even rework a surface more than 6 hours after completing.

So if I found something I didn't like, simply spray, paint, and done

FLAT!! And that's when I started going extreme: paint, wet 'n' dry

sand, paint and end up with a surface that looked like commercial grade,

formica flat. Within a year, the wood grain would reassert itself so the

look came out beautiful.



It was during this time, I gave up on rollers, the cut in left marks,

the stipple left patterns, and damage from trying to rework a semi-dry

area left 'unfogriveable' cottage cheese on the walls! Absolutely worse

than a brush! Best was an artist air brush and oil base paint, now that

was nice, especially for doing the trim around the windows in the french

doors.



Using Dunn Edwards in order to match color already used: Dunn Edwards

W6240 WERSAFLAT base.



For what's it's worth, a 'close' color match from Home Depot yielded the

same battles with brush strokes. Even their high end exterior masonry

paint [different color and over stucco] does the same.



Thank you for that URL. Not a lot of real information there except to

decry competitors 'cheaper' products not working well, EXCEPT, the web

info does say that high temperature and low humidity cause trouble. They

don't give humidity number, but do mention 90 degrees, I assume that's

Fahrenheit.



Interior home is anywhere from 82 to 89 degrees [also Fahrenheit] and

being in the desert, humidity is usually in the 10-16% ranges, plus run

a bit of AIR and probably even lower.



That may be PART of your problem. I wonder where/how you stored what was

left of the original paint...garage, very high temp?



Ok, so last night I just poured in the water to thin [guess at less than

10% increase in volume] until the stirring stick has run-off like

low-fat milk. Painted, and can verify VERY thin, because left drops on

the floor EVERYWHERE about every 4 inches. STILL VERY DISAPPOINTING!

Dried more slowly, took around 10 minutes or less to be able to touch

the surfaces. But the results were just 'less' corduroy.



That is plain crazy....no modern paint is supposed to run like low-fat

milk. Most are like thick cream. It is beginning to seem that you

haven't the faintest idea what the label says or why it says what it does.



I agree about the thickness. I haven't done any painting in quite
a while and last year painted a couple of rooms with Benjamin Moore.
It was thicker than I remember other paints being from 15 years ago,
but it was by far the best performing paint I've ever used. No
brush strokes where cutting in, no back spatter from the roller,
beautiful finish, right out of the can.

I normally use BM, but got some Sherwin Williams exterior alkyd semi
when I stripped and painted exterior trim on my daughter's house. That
paint was like pancake batter, it was so thick, but it went on, spread,
levelled like a dream!

At the same time, I just had the fast drying experience that the OP
is talking about. That was with Zinnser oil based stain killer.
It was drying so fast, I was having a hard time getting the brush
strokes out. First I thought it was because it was going on
areas that had been repaired, covered with mud. But it performed
pretty much the same on the areas that were previously painted.

I think Zinsser has a water-based stain blocker, don't they? I know the
shellac based primer dries pretty fast, but I had to sand that project
anyway. Zinsser, I think, might be the oldest of the reliable
stain-blockers, but I would use any of the good brands if they make a
stain-blocker....the labels are pretty reliable.

I used Zinsser water-based (IIRC) on dark walnut-colored Formica
bathroom cabinet....if it didn't work, I would have ripped it out.
Worked fine, with semi alkyd over the primer after repairing the
powdered particle-board doors that had gotten wet. Moisture would seep
between the two Formica surfaces and pop the particle-board. Same thing
with an old kitchen cabinet...I now smear a touch of silicone caulk into
the seams of Formica on my counter to keep unnoticed puddles from
getting down to the p.b.

If I has something to thin it with, I would have done
so, but I wanted to get through the job, so I toughed it out.
Still, as it dried it did pretty much level itself out, but next time if
I need that type of product, I would choose a different brand.
But again that was with a stain killer, so they may be thicker
and have different properties than a regular latex paint.

If the paint is drying as fast as he says, I think the advice
to take it together with some materials to the store and show
them what it's doing is good advice. And I'd be choosing a
different brand of paint next time.



And I paint all cut edges of particle board or MDF that might possibly
see water. Paint ALL sink cutouts and ALL kitchen counter hidden
edges.