On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 07:08:24 +0100, harryagain wrote:

I'm sorry, renewables not subsidised?

What is your 42p/unit solar PV payment if not a subsisidy?

What is the payment above the wholesale rate to windmills when
they
generate but a subsidy?

What is the payment to wind mills not to generate if not a
subsisidy?

No answer noted.

But are producing bugger all as I type, it's too dark and there is
**** all wind. In fact we are importing twice as much from France
as
wind is producing. Most of our lecky (84%) is currently coming
from
coal, followed by nuke then CCGT.

That is because we don't yet have the full range of renewables.

Even with a "full range" (define please) of renewables the UK just
isn't big enough to collect enough renewable energy to supply our
total energy demand on a 24/7 basis.

We are notably lacking tidal power.

If we had the severn barage when I posted last night it was just a
couple of hours after high tide at Avonmouth so it might have been
able to provide 5% of the demand. So still the upper 70's% required
to come from coal, nuke or gas.

The politicos listening to the greenie pressure groups have scuppered
the severn barage again anyway.

There will always need to be some gas powered electricity too.
But not oil, coal or nuclear.

Why gas and not nuke? Oh it's beacuse you must have something
dispatchable to cope with the unpredictable nature of the oh so
wonderful renewables.

Roll on smart meters. Give people a choice:

Pay for a "green" electricity at 20p+/unit (to pay for the subsidies
to the windmaills, solar PV etc) but when there is not enough "green"
electricity about you switch them off.

Pay 10p/unit for principally coal/nuke/gas which is available 24/7
unless something like Longannet/Sizewell B happens.

We will then see how much real support the "green" supliers get from
the population at large. Those on "green" tarrifs now are just
freeloading on the coal/nuke/gas generation whilst lining the pockets
of the "green" suppliers. They simply do not realise just how little
of their "green" electricty comes from "green" sources.

--
Cheers
Dave.