On Mon, 1 Jul 2013 17:50:26 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 22:19:48 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 19:36:25 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 18:13:18 -0400, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:qhd0t85pim856v1ggup94pm76fe7c6uc0k@4ax .com...
On Sun, 30 Jun 2013 03:58:38 -0400, Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks wrote:

On 6/28/2013 11:15 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

When you start sending checks to the IRS for the tax breaks you
get
for depreciating capital equipment, we'll be interested in your
argument.

I don't capitalize nor depreciate equipment at my accountant's
advice,
most is built from "shop expences".

So you've found an even better angle -- you expense everything, and
carry the value of your equipment on your books at zero.

Very nice, Tom. That's a better dodge than rapid depreciation. Hats
off to your accountant.


I still remember, and laugh at your assertion that Christians won't
be
murdered or even discriminated against in the ME nor are Iranians
seeking to build bombs.

You've said that several times, but you've never come up with the
words I actually said. It sounds like myths that have gestated in
your
head until they're upside-down and growing with the roots up in the
air.

As I recall, you said there would be a mass uprising (like the
"Great
Cull"?) and that masses of Muslims would slaughter all of the
Christians. To which I objected. Correctly.

Now you say it was "any murders" and discrimination. This is
beginning
to sound like the innocuous comment I made about rich kids that got
you so upset. I never said then what you thought I said, either.

As for the Iranians seeking to build bombs, if I ever said anything
like that, fie on me. I never thought that. I expected from the
start
that's what they intended.

You're a great barometer for how things aren't
and won't be. I'd LOVE to play Poker with you!

Same here. Everything you're holding probably looks like a flush to
you. d8-)

Ed, who are responding to, Tom or Kidding??? LOL

Tawwwm.

LOL..... I see you have some dialectic awareness.... Few people do.
One day I'll go into a rant on the new nationwide Valley-speak, where
cat
is
now cot, carrot is not corrot,

(Check out Norther Tier Vowel Shift, sometimes called Northern Cities
Vowel Shift. My SIL has it soooo bad; she's from the Chicago southwest
suburbs, where it's worst. Iggy doubtless recognizes it. I want to
correct her pronunciation all the time, like you would with a kid who
says "nucular.")

Kids?? KIDS????? How bout 3/4 of fuknCongress????

I read a bit of the Wiki on this, it dudn't seem to apply to what I'm
referring.

Ah, sorry, I was just pointing it out as an example of vowel shifts,
not specifically addressing your example. There are lots of vowel
shifts in English, mostly regional.

Dialects are dialects, accents are accents, regional is regional, and I
really don't have a problem with most of them, perty inneresting in many
cases.
It's this obnoxious pretentious *peer-driven bull***** that sticks in my
craw....

Yeah, that's the new version of the ethnic dialects. Now it transmits
via electronic media, and can pop up in different parts of the country
at the same time.


I'm listening to fukn WNYC/NPR interviewers/anchors engaging in this
valley-speak bull****, and it is invariably females doing this.
Once in a while a male, but then f'sure he's gay, and they certainly have
their own bevy dialectical issues.... among so many others.... LOL

But HERE'S a Q ferya:
How do you explain vowel EXCHANGE???

It's not actually an exchange. It's a strange brew of non-rhotic
substitutions and dipthongs, or glides.

Most New Yawk dialects are non-rhotic: "r's" aren't pronounced unless
they're followed by a consonant ("batta up," instead of "batter up").
But there are some substititions -- the introduction of an "r" before
a consonant, possibly to simplify a preceding dipthong ("terlet"). And
"woik" does the opposite -- the "r" is dropped in exchange for a
dipthong ("oi," for "oy").

Dood, you let me down!!!

NO explanation for the reversal, as in, The terlet doesn't woik??

Complete reversal!!!

Actually, to be phonetically ackerit, it would be, Da terlet dudn't woik....
But I didn't want to confuse anyone... LOL




That's it. That's all I ever learned about it, back when I was
interested in linguistics.

It's not a big mystery but neither is it simple, because the basic
non-rhotic issue crops up in Boston accents, and some English accents,
and they don't always appear with the substitutes. Thus, the Bostonian
"broad 'a'." It's mostly just a dropping of rhotic "r's," and the "a"
is what's left.

There are examples from the New York dialects that contradict the
points above, because it's a tangle of substitutions and pronouncing
simplifications. I think you could find explanations about the
complexities of non-rhotic pronunciations online, but I don't
guarentee it will be easy to find what you're looking for. New York
dialects have been studied to beat hell, however. Try Google Scholar.


For example, the typical deep-blue collar Queens/brooklynite will say
terlet
for toilet, and THEN woik for work.... WTF?????
OR, they will say soder fer soda, micer for mica, and THEN huh fuh her,
and
sistuh fuh sister..... WTF?????
COMPLETE REVERSALS!!!!

g I don't know why. I only know that non-rhotic dialects often
contain substitutions. For "terlet," my vague recollection of that
kind of substitution is a non-dipthong pronunciation for one with a
dipthong. Dipthongs are more work for the tongue and non-dipthong
substitutions are common, even without the "r" stuff. Thus, "nukular."
I don't recall any more about it.

"Woik" looks like a straight non-rhotic substitution -- in this case,
by substituting a dipthong ("oi") for the rhotic "r.".

Beyond that, you're on your own. Really, this stuff is available in
the literature. But before you try to read it, brush up on the IPA
phonetic symbols. You'll find them online for sure -- maybe even with
audio pronunciations.

You're looking for a simple answer for a pretty complex thing. New
Yawk dialects are complex enough that peole have gotten PhD.s studying
them. You expect me to know those answers? Sheesh. I'm better with
stoichiometric fuel mixtures. d8-)


No one has ever been able to explain this, and I"ve axed all over the
lexcicogeographical place.
You're my last shot, Ed.... Don't let me down..... LOL

You know, this whole nookyooler thing came up here about 6 mos ago, and a
few people here actually DEFENDED the pronunciation.... and you know
what??
It almost made sense!!!! I think some claimed that nookyooler is now an
accepted alternative pronunciation.....
Sheeit, not only are we subject to the Tyranny of the Majority, we are
subject to the Tyranny of an Ignerint and Ilitirit Majority.....
goodgawd.....

A little piece of my heart is nibbled away each time I hear "nukular."
But it's another one of those lazy substitutions that are common in
many American and British dialects. "Lea" gets your tongue flapping.
"Ku" does not.

Notice the versatility of The Ilitirit:
Nookyooler, nookuhler, noooky-ler, nyookyooler, nyookuhler, nookle-er....
Have I missed any??? lol

Nookie oiler.



English evolves, and lots of our pronunciations make no sense.

Wouldn't dat be, DEvolves??

You wanna do linguistics? Ya' gotta loosen up.

Listen, I've done my time with the hard-core style prescriptions. I
edited with the American Medical Association Manual of Style. That's
enough prescription for anyone. Screw up, and you get a letter from a
lawyer.

I lost interest in linguistics years ago. But Noam Chomsky is always
an interesting read. So is J.R.R. Tolkien.




We are doomed..... ossumly doomed.... on so MANY levels!!!!
And now, I cain't even decay, deteriorate, die in peace.... I gotta
listen
to co-ed ****heads croaking like fukn Brittny 'til my ignominious end.....
jesus.....

I've been wondering if you have an old-time Yonkers accent. When I was
a kid and lived next door in Mr. Vernon, I attended a Catholic school
and we had some Yonkers kids. Their pronunciations stood out like a
sore thumb.

Hard to say.... born/bred Manhattanite, until Manhattan expelled me.
Mostly I just chant various incarnations of "fukn mutha****a's" around the
house/shop....
hard to peg dat regionally.... lol

It's all in the prosody. If you do High Rising Terminal (Val gal), I'm
not speaking to you.

--
Ed Huntress