On Jun 1, 2:01*pm, Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:
" wrote :





On Jun 1, 9:30 am, Mitchell Holman nomailverizon.net wrote:
" wrote
innews:c26f7eae-81a
:

On Jun 1, 8:29 am, "Alex W." wrote:
On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 07:19:58 -0500, Free Lunch wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2013 21:34:08 -0700, (Jason)
wrote in alt.atheism:

In article , Free
Lunch wrote:

On Fri, 31 May 2013 19:22:25 -0700, (Jason)
wrote in alt.atheism:

In article , Free
Lunch wrote:
...
How much are you willing to spend in enforcement to avoid
$1,000 i
n
fraud?

About 5 to 10 percent of the money spent on the food stamp
program.

So you want to spend billions in enforcement to avoid a
thousand in waste. How foolish of you.

I meant to investigate cases of possible fraud and abuse.

But fraud and abuse are far less than 5% of the cost now.

Which may be true but is immaterial to the debate since this
is a political issue, and politics is largely the art of
wrestling with and managing public perception. Similar
examples are a perceived crime wave when actual figures show
a downturn in crime,

Nice analogy. There are 48 mil on food stamps today, up
70% in the last 4 years. If crime were up like that, it would
be one hell of a mess. Actually, crime is one hell of a mess
in places like Detroit and Chicago that are run by you libs.

or the view that illegal immgirants are
welfare spongers when the evidence shows they are by and
large extremely hard workers,

hard worker or not, they are still illegal aliens. And there
are plenty of them taking advantage of the USA.

Illegal Immigration Provides Benefits to States
Fox Busniess News

Putting the law and morality of illegal entry aside, several
studies have shown the illegal immigrant population is more
of an economic contributor to state and local economies than
politicians like to tell an angry electorate. The numbers can
be broken down into the fiscal cost (or gain) of illegal
immigrants to states, along with the economic contribution of
the population.

The most thorough study on the fiscal and economic impact of
immigration was done by the non-partisan Texas Comptrollers
Office in 2006, which showed Texas earned more in taxes and
economic output from illegal immigrants than governments spent
to provide services. According to the Comptrollers office,
state and local governments spent $1.16 billion to provide
services like education, health care and safety, but raised
an estimated $1.58 billion in tax revenues. Based on the data,
the Texas taxpayer made a $424.7 million profit on its illegal
immigrant population in 2006.

Liar, liar, pants on fire! * You carefull edited out this part which
totally
changes the math:

"Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues,
which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received.
However, local governments bore the burden of $1.44 billion in
uncompensated health care costs and local law enforcement costs not
paid for by the state.

So:

$1.58bil - $1.16bil - $1.44 bil = *- $1bil

In other words illegal alliens actually cost the citizens of TX,
$1bil.

* * You aren't factoring in the consumer cost of
goods and service kept artifically low by the
work of illegals.

No, I just used your own reference and showed how you tried
to use it in a lie. You just cut off the very next sentence in the
TX Comptrollers report where they said that the cost to the
"state" didn't include the additioanl $1.4bil that healthcare for
illegal aliens is costing TX municipalities. I'm not sure they
included the cost to the FEDERAL Govt either. IT appears
they just looked very narrowly at what it cost the TX state govt.

Now you want to try to change the argument to something
else. It's funny. When Walmart creates a job and pays an
American citizen the min wage, why it's a very bad thing. They are
exploiting and taking advantage of them. Yet now you want
to argue that cheap illegal alien labor that is keeping wages
low is a good thing? Go figure.




How high would wages (and thus
prices) have to go to lure Americans into fields
to pick lettuce and strawberries and to gut cattle
and "process" chickens and pigs?

How high would a wage have to go at Walmart to shut
you libs up? Maybe we should find out. I would think you libs
would be all for $4 a head lettuce if it means an American
has a higher paying job. Make up your mind.

As for how high wages would have to go before Americans
would take them instead of collecting unemployment, disability,
food stamps, welfare, etc, well given all the lib programs that
offer an alternative to work, who knows?



* * Why do you think growers have to go as far away
as Jamaica to find legal field hands?


Eastern Washington farm hires 300 Jamaican workers
May 24, 2010

A farm in Eastern Washington is employing hundreds of
Jamaican workers to replace the illegal immigrants it
lost after an Immigration and Customs Enforcement
investigation last year.

If you don't like the idea of letting wages rise to the point they
need to be at to get Americans to take those jobs, then I'm
OK with a LIMITED guest worker program. One where they
are documented, checked to make sure they aren't criminals,
pay all the appropriate taxes, etc. George Bush proposed such
a plan. Why do you libs insist that it be done illegally?







Yes, when the elected govt is anti-American, denies basic human
rights to women, persecutes Christians and supports our enemies.

* * Oh, puh-leeze. Where was that concern for womens
rights and "supporting our enemies" when it comes to
US aid to Saudi monarchy?

Saudi Document Shows Kingdom Linked with Al-Qaeda Terror
May 25 2010

An Iraqi news agency has revealed more evidence linking
Saudi Arabia with terror. The Buratha news service
published what it said it is a secret document disclosing
how much money the Saudi kingdom has transferred to Al-Qaeda
in Iraq. The kingdom reportedly sends explosives and weapons
to terrorist groups in Iraq.

Saudi Arabia did not comment on the report and instead
criticized intelligence officials for disclosing the
document. Buratha said that King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz
ordered a special committee to investigate the intelligence
leak and inform him about those liable in the case. Saudi
authorities reportedly have arrested 37 of the country's
intelligence officials for being behind the leak.http://tinyurl.com/27ra64g- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

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We don't provide foreign aid to Saudi Arabia. Egypt is near the
top of the list. Capiche?