Joe Gwinn explained :
In article , John G
wrote:

Joe Gwinn expressed precisely :
In article , John G
wrote:

Joe Gwinn has brought this to us :
In article , David Billington
wrote:

On 24/05/13 19:29, janders wrote:
On 5/24/2013 8:47 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Likely, the current is low. Most "neons" pass only low tens of
milliamps, max. If that's the case, most any small power transformer
rated for 6-10VA with a center-tapped 220V primary would do.

Use it in "autoformer" mode, hooking 220V to the outside leads, and
tapping 110V from the line-neutral leg to the center leg.

Ok, just to make sure bases are covered, I've been told that in
Australia, 220 is -220-, either leg to ground is 220, not 110.
Don't know if that changes anything you wrote above...


Jon
I would expect Australia to be like the UK so you would have live,
neutral and ground, where neutral and ground are tied together at the
substation, and live is one leg of the 3 phase distribution system for a
single phase supply. So you would get 220V from live to ground or
neutral, neutral to ground should be 0V but might have a small
difference but it should be very small.

I have heard that the difference is that Aussies distribute three phase
corner-grounded delta even to residences, so simple voltage
measurements don't add up as expected because the wires are out of
phase with one another.

However, I have not been able to find any web cites to back this up.
Perhaps there is an Australian on the group who knows the details.

Joe Gwinn

The Australian System of High voltage is 3 phase Delta (ungrounded I
think). The local distribution is 3 phase WYE with the neutral center
of the WYE grounded so a single phase device is connected any phase and
neutral giving a nominal of 240 volts (Although there is a move to the
harmonization as in Europe to 230 volts).
Three phase WYE is distributed to many homes (mine included ) giving
415 volts phase to phase for air con etc.
As I said elsewhere in this thread I generally get 245 or more as I am
the first drop of a 400kva pole pig ( bigger than most US pole pigs).

Three-phase wye requires 3 wires plus neutral plus ground (green or
bare), versus 2 wires plus neutral plus ground for the US and European
systems, and for corner-grounded 3-phase delta systems.

Three phase generally is only run to homes with big Air cons etc and
lower current (at higher voltage) needs less copper.

So, you have four large non-green wires coming into your home?

Yes

Europe is 3 phase WYE with the center grounded although the nominal
Volts was lower than Aus and UK but is coming up to the harmonized 230
I believe.

I did find stuff about this voltage harmonization on the web.


Is the corner-grounded 3-phase delta system possibly used in rural
areas of Australia?

Do not think there is any general use of Corner grounds at any level in
Aus.

OK. Perhaps I'll recall where I saw this claimed. I think it was in a
thread on RCM, some years ago. RCM folk were jealous of the Aussies
for having access to three-phase power in homes.

I can understand the jealousy but I think they were wrong or ill
informed about Corner grounds. In fact all, in my relativly wide
experience, houshold distribution is 4 wire WYE 240/415 volts in Aus
With only one phase delivered unless there is a larger load.
Remember a lot of Aus has a rether mild climate with a large proportion
living below the snow line or below the Tropic of Capricorn so it is
only in more recent times that Air Cons hve become very popular and
Dryers work fine on one 2Kw service 240 volts 10 amps.

There is some SWER (Single Wire Earth Return)in rural areas and I have
no idea what voltage that is but each user has a pole pig to get 240V.

Sounds like what is done in rural areas of the US.

The intent of the original US efforts to develop rotating phase
converters was to generate three phase for the powering of irrigation
pumps, because three phase induction motors are simpler, cheaper, and
more reliable than single-phase, especially in irrigation-pump sizes.


Of course as with most of the Hi voltage part of the world the
frequency is 50 Hz.

Yes. General rule is ~100 volts is 60 Hz, while ~240 volts is 50 Hz.
Except that Japan has a 50 Hz and a 60 Hz region, if my memory is
correct. Don't know the history, but would guess that WW2 has
something to do with it.
Japan had some 100 volts as well.

My understanding is that Japan is all 100 volt. Their wall outlets
look like US outlets, but with thicker blades. It's only the frequency
that varied.
Yes

Joe Gwinn

--
John G