On Mon, 20 May 2013 17:24:40 -0400, rickman wrote:

On 5/17/2013 2:40 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
I'm fighting the school system with, now, the 5th granddaughter, 6th
Grade.

Last week they were peddling how to cut corners out of a piece of
cardboard to form a box with the maximum volume, with no established
skill set.... "guess" your way to the solution :-(

snip

This week they suddenly jumped to Algebra, simultaneous equations,
without even any single variable background.

There may be more to this than you are getting second hand from a 12
year old.

No second hand about it. This is the modern era. Though she's in
Palm Springs, Californica, she PDF'd her homework sheet. I have it
right here in front of me.

Oh, you are in the classroom watching it all first hand?

snip

Teachers are highly educated in...
teaching.

Bwahahahahaha! Almost lost my lunch over that:-}

DOUBLE Bwahahahahaha!


Exactly. That's the problem, you have no respect for teachers even
though you don't understand their methods.

I have no respect for teachers who do other than teach. I blame
administrators and school boards for curriculum, and that speeding
thru courses beats rote.

This is getting pointless. If you want teachers to teach, let them
teach. Before you criticize their methods, why not learn them. Or you
can come here and whine.


It is not a subject that is trivial for the lay person. Try
sometime reading some of the material teachers have to master.

I'm hardly a lay person...

(1) I got 800 in Math on the SAT's. What did you get?

You sound like Larkin now. But this has *nothing* to do with teaching.

It simply means I can run circles around you in math :-)

HA. That just shows you poor you are at logic which is part of math.
So you are wrong.


(2) I attended M.I.T. on a FULL Alumni Fund National Scholarship back
when scholarships were awarded on the basis of competency, not on
need... my parents were wealthy by the standards of the '50's.

Again, *nothing* to do with teaching.

You said I was a "lay person". Clearly I'm not.



(3) I graduated in Course 6-B, the HONORS Electrical Engineering
Program.

*Nothing* to do with teaching.

You said I was a "lay person". Clearly I'm not.

Look, you are being silly. You know nothing about teaching. You are
not willing to learn about teaching. So why are you actively
criticizing teachers who do know? Oh right, you are a *math* wiz, so
you must know more than everyone else including the subjects you never
studied.


(4) And, though not worth all that much, an MSEE from ASU (*)

So you acknowledge that you have learned *nothing* about teaching?!

I have (very successfully) taught seminars in Integrated Circuit
Design for more years than you probably are old.

But you still know nothing about teaching grade school. Do you really
thing they are the same?


Teachers may be competent, but they're bound to parrot the line
established by the school boards and the administrators. Thus we have
children expelled for wearing NRA T-shirts, pointing with their
fingers, etc.

Unlike you, teachers are all educated in *teaching* and are accredited
in teaching. What are your qualifications again? Oh yeah, your
qualifications are all in being *taught* by *teacher*.

Teaching is a union. I offered to teach a technician-level course at
Scottsdale Community College for FREE (the course had been dropped
because they had no instructor). I was denied because I didn't have a
"teacher's certificate". Teaching is a union that must be busted.

There's your problem. You know nothing about teaching school and you
think those who do know are just union drones. Get out and learn
something about the subject at hand.


No wonder US students rank so low, worldwide, in math (and science).

Or maybe its because we just don't value engineers, etc. as highly as
other occupations, so students aren't interested as much in those subjects?

Our society has created a life-style based on texting, tweeting, and
sucking off the tit of the government.

I think you must be many decades older than myself. You sound like a
grandparent... no you sound like *all* grandparents through history.

I can kick your ass in math or circuit design any day of the year,
grandparent or not.

Yes, very Larkinesque.


The sooner the revolution the better.

(*) My first week at ASU, I was thrown out of a Physics class for
asking the Prof, "When do you plan to start teaching this course on a
college level".

Yes, and your level of disrespect for others continues. You don't get
that your critera for others is of no interest to the rest of the world.


After some "conversation" with the Dean, I got full credit for that
course and several others offered at ASU. Finally found some
non-linear control system courses that were useful ;-)

So you have a huge ego. That doesn't mean you ar equalified to judge
teachers.

Wrong! I am qualified because I have a huge math, science and
engineering background... because M.I.T. teaches undergrad to a level
exceeding what most universities offer as graduate level courses. (And
the ASU Physics level was just plain JUVENILE.)

Rickman, I have authorized your graduation to the rank of butt-buddy.
Bye:-}

Yes, you are quite the logician and debating expert too. How about you
stick to the subjects you know something about or at least have an open
mind about learning something new?

I've followed this thread for a while and I'm struck by your strident
support for teachers and teaching.

You seem to suggest that we mere mortals can't understand teaching
despite being educated in grade school, high school, college, and
graduate school. And, despite having children and grandchildren go
through the same process.

Consider these facts about teaching and teachers:

* As a group, teaching majors have the lowest SAT scores

* Schools of education are regarded as the dregs of universities'
schools

* If it required special training to teach, why is it that a
5-year-old can teach a 3-year-old how to do something?

* University professors--people who teach--aren't required to have
teacher training or teaching credentials

* Teaching majors learn such things as teaching methods, teaching
tools, etc. The one thing they don't learn--specifically, elementary
school teachers--is something to teach; they are no better educated in
basic subjects than they were when they left high school.

When I was in elementary school, several teachers told our classes,
for example, that "I was never very good at math," or "I was never
very good at spelling." But they taught those subjects nevertheless.

Public schools are worse now than they were 50 years ago, and they
continue to get worse.

When I was in grade school, we had smart kids and we had dumb kids,
but ALL could read. That's not true today, even for high school kids.

Your vaunted teachers have failed us. Jim Thompson's examples of how
his granddaughter was given a problem for which she was not equipped,
and the teacher jumping into simultaneous equations with no prior
preparation in single-variable algebra are only two examples. The
examples of misguided teachers and teaching methods are endless.