On 4/26/2013 2:35 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 04/26/2013 02:00 PM, Frank wrote:
On 4/26/2013 12:24 PM, Pete C. wrote:

Frank wrote:

On 4/26/2013 7:05 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 04/26/2013 07:00 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
I've been interested in finding a more acceptable solution to indoor
lighting than the usual spiral CFLs for a while now, yesterday I was
researching LED light bulbs as I was actually repairing an outdoor
post
light (and am trying a 4W LED in it, although I don't think it's
bright
enough for the application) and found this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-1...0#BVRRWidgetID





which is available at select (read: almost none) Home Depots but the
secret is that if you can find them, they're apparently subsidized by
local utilities or something to about $15 apiece, not the $50
listed on
the web site. A store about 50 miles away from me had a stock of
them
however and I have a friend who works in that area so I imposed on
him
to get me a couple.

I have a feeling I need more of these. They have a CRI of 92 (normal
CFLs and most LEDs are in the 70-80 range) Surprisingly, HD does not
even mention CRI at all in their description of this product
although to
me it's a bigger deal than the efficiency. However if you research
the
L-prize you'll find that a CRI of 90 was one of the conditions.
They
also turn on instantly, and are actually bright. Well, almost
instantly
- there's a very brief but noticable delay between flipping the
switch
and getting light. It's really the one way you can tell that
you're not
turning on an incandescent bulb but something more complicated and
electronic. I remember when we didn't try to skimp on light bulb
size
and actually lit up a room, but since switching to CFLs it's hard
to get
enough light in some spaces. Two of these 10W bulbs are definitely
brighter than the single 40W CFL with which I was trying to light
up a
difficult room (dark paneling, main lighting from a torchiere with a
dark colored shade that reflects most of the light up, would have
been
acceptable with a 200+ watt 3-way incandescent which is what it was
obviously designed for, but nothing else produced acceptable light)
and
there's none of that annoying brightness ramp-up that you get from
CFLs.

One thing that I have not tested with these bulbs is dimming ability.
Supposedly it works, but some dimmers will buzz and hum. But if you
don't have dimmers, don't have fully enclosed light fixtures, and
don't
mind (or can't see in your application) the odd shape/color of the
bulb
when unlit, there's really nothing at all I can find fault with.

Best part - this bulb is actually assembled in the USA, and
apparently
the LEDs used are made in the USA as well!

This may be old news for some as apparently they've been available
@ HD
at the discounted price for about a month now, but I figured this was
worth posting because a) I don't go into HD that often and b) even
if I
did, none of the stores local to me carry this bulb so if I hadn't
gone
looking for it online I would not have known that it was actually
available (and if someone hadn't mentioned to check the price, the
$50
price listed on HD's web site would have put me off...)

Hope this helps someone...

nate


Forgot to add... the really amusing thing about this bulb is the
packaging. Philips hits a home run with this product which will
likely
primarily appeal to eco-weenies and people who actually geek out over
things like light bulbs... and yet the packaging is that awful heat
sealed clamshell plastic, and about 3x as large as it needs to be. I
can't imagine any packaging more annoying, or, here's the ironic bit,
less eco-friendly...

nate


I guess if you're paying $50 for a light bulb you want first class
packaging.

Anybody that does the math will know that CFL's are most cost
efficient.

You flubbed your math then.

Assumptions:

40W equivalent lamps (what I have data handy for)
Power $0.10/kWh
Incandescent lamp $1
CFL lamp $3
LED lamp $10 (the $50 Phillips may be the latest, greatest, but most
LEDs are a lot less expensive)


Incandescent: $1 lamp, 750hr life, 40W power consumption = $0.0053
per hour
($1/750)+((40/1000)*$0.10)

CFL: $3 lamp, 8,000hr life, 14W power consumption = $0.0018
per hour
($3/8000)+((14/1000)*$0.10)

LED: $10 lamp, 30,000hr life, 7.5W power consumption = $0.0011
per hour
($10/30000)+((7.5/1000)*$0.10)

So LED lamps are about 20% cheaper than CFL


I did not do the math but the Phillips lamp, and that's what I
addressed, is 10 watts and costs $50. I'm not taking time to do math
again. You can do it but off hand I'll bet its more expensive.
I'd buy the 60 watt equivalent $10 LED bulb if I knew where to get it.

The Cree 9.5W/800 lumen (advertised as "60W equivalent" although this
seems to be a little reminiscent of CFL advertising where you give up
50-100 lumens relative to a traditional incandescent) ones apparently
are readily available in the HD stores that aren't selling the Philips
L-Prize bulbs. The Cree ones are $13 in my area and I apparently
wouldn't have any trouble getting them. I specifically sought out the
Philips bulbs because of the higher CRI and the "made in the USA"
factor, and the $2 difference (everywhere that I've actually been able
to find them for sale, they're $15 not $50; online at Amazon now, if
you're not close to a store selling them, they're about $30 BTW) isn't
going to kill me. The higher light output and greater efficiency is
nice too.

Not that Cree makes a bad product - as I said in a previous post, there
are applications where it might make sense to use them, e.g. where the
bulb is exposed and you are trying to maintain the appearance of a
traditional frosted bulb. I've got several flashlights using Cree LEDs
and they're great; I think I've replaced one pair of batteries in one of
three flashlights after several years of ownership and use (and all are
still working fine.) If the Philips didn't exist I'd probably be trying
a few of the Cree bulbs now.

As an aside, Cree is apparently where it's at for can lights now. They
have several models of downlights with a CRI of 90 or greater but for
whatever reason their "light bulbs" have a lower CRI. So Philips for
bulbs, but Cree for can lights.

Slight change in subject but I think home lighting requirements only
takes up about 14% of your total electric bill so improved lights are
just chasing diminishing return on investment.

I didn't even bother to fact check that statement but keep in mind that
going from incandescent to CFL or LED will reduce the heat load on your
A/C as well, if you live in an area that requires primarily cooling
rather than heating (and I do)

Also, is that 14% assuming incandescents or CFLs? If the latter, then
using incandescents would change lighting to a significant fraction of
the total power used.

nate


Number found he

http://www.eia.gov/emeu/lighting/execsum.html

is 9.4% for lighting and that is pre-cfl even.

I love the LED flashlights too. Believe I have 2 of the three watt Crees.

I bought two HD TV's last year, one LCD and one LED. Difference is the
lighting as what are called LCD's use cfl lighting where LED set has LCD
screen but lighting is LCD. The LED set runs noticeably cooler.
Don't know the wattage difference.