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Pete C.

wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 14:46:16 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 11:50:48 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 12:24:54 -0400, Nate Nagel
wrote:

On 04/26/2013 10:45 AM, nestork wrote:
I think the biggest selling point of these LED bulbs is that they're
dimmable, and they're instant-on like incandescents. You don't have to
wait a minute for the light output to rise.

But, the economics are an uphill battle for them.

Converting to CFL's was a no-brainer when they first came out because
even at their $7 per bulb price tag, they'd save you 80% on your
electricity, and that made them pay for themselves in a relatively short
period of time.

Now, unless there's a government subsidy involved, paying even $15 extra
to save an additional 3 watts is economically difficult. In a house
with 20 light bulbs, $300 is a lot of money to invest in them, whereas
60 watts isn't a lot of savings to justify the investment. It's not
even economically attractive to replace incandescents with LED's when
the option of replacing them with CFL's is open to you.

I expect some people will buy these LED bulbs for dining rooms where
they want the dimmability, but other than that the transition from CFL's
to LED's is gonna be a slow one... until the price of LED bulbs drops to
within a buck or two of CFLs. Unfortunately, the price won't drop until
they start being mass produced, and that's not going to happen until
they're economically competitive with CFL's and, except for a C-change
in technology, that's not going to happen until the price drops.
Your classic Catch-22.

BUT if I needed to purchase some sort of light, any light, with the only
consideration being that it was going to go in an Edison base fixture, I
wouldn't even consider CFLs anymore. My choice today would be between
an incandescent and these new LEDs. The price difference between a CFL
and the LEDs (at $15, anyway) is little enough that I'm willing to pay
the extra for the luxury of not being annoyed at the CFL every time I
turn it on.

THe only place I have CFLs is in the unfinished basement, where
1) I don't care what how the light looks.
2) I don't care about the absurdly long warm-up. Much.
3) The lights may stay on for more than an hour a day so there might
be some energy to save.
4) Haven't gotten the T8s wired in yet.

#1 was resolved years ago. Current CFLs have good color temp and CRI.

Bull****. Color temp doesn't tell you jack.

Tell that to anyone in the photo/video/film/stage lighting fields...

Really? Do photographers and videographers use CFLs? You really are
a dummy.

Yep, they sure do. They also use T8 flouro arrays.

#2 seems to only apply to encapsulated CFLs, not a single one of the
open spiral CFLs I've used has a warmup time over a second or so after
it's initial couple hours of burn-in.

Nonsense. The pig tails take five minutes, or longer, to come up to
full brightness. In cold weather, forget it. Most of my lighs aren't
on that long in a day.

None of the dozens of CFLs I've used have ever behaved that way. You
must live in the Bermuda triangle for CFLs.

The only possible explanation is that you're blind.

Yes, that's it, that's the ticket... Nobody could possibly have
experience that doesn't match your prejudice...

#3 there is energy to save regardless of daily run time. If your sub
hour a day run time saves #0.03 that's still a savings. Total lamp
lifetime savings is still the same, it just takes longer to accumulate.

Bull****. It takes energy to make the things (and for me to buy
them).

Yep, as it does to make incandescents and for you to buy the 40
incandescents that it will take to cover the service life of one LED
lamp.

You really are an idiot. It would take me forty years to go through
forty lights. Try turning off your lights when you leave a room.
You'll save a *LOT* more money than using crappy CFLs.

I've never used crappy CFLs, I used good CFLs and have now moved on to
good LEDs now that they are available at reasonable prices. The LG ones
I've been using for a bit over a year are performing wonderfully.

#4 I use all 4' T8 fixtures in my shop and I'm pretty happy with them.
LEDs would save more power, but it would take more fixtures to get the
same coverage as a cheap dual 4' T8 fixture.

Don't bet on LEDs taking less power. 4' T8s are pretty efficient. The
light is also better for such work than anything you're likely to find
in a "bulb".

T8s are good, but LED are still more efficient W/Lumen.

I don't think that's right.

It is, whether you think it or not.