On Feb 19, 5:08*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:21:33 -0800 (PST), "









wrote:
On Feb 19, 10:46*am, wrote:
wrote:
I know plenty of history. This particular problem started when we
allowed displaced European Jews to occupy Palestinian territory after
WWII instead of just making the Germans and French give them their
property back ... and maybe a little more.

Who exactly is this "we"? * *You make it sound like Palestine was
a peaceful place where everyone was getting along just fine until
some Jews from post WWII Europe showed up. *The region had
been in conflict for a long time. *While it's true there was a large
additional migration of Jews there after WWII, Jews had already
been migrating their for decades prior. *And the area was in conflict,
as far back as WWII and after, when under British rule.
The Palestinians were fighting the British, the Jews, etc.
To be sure, the arrival of more Jews didn't help, but it's incorrect
to trace the origins of the problem to the aftermath of WWII

Prior to AIPAC, the US did not give a **** what happened in Palestine
and we certainly were not committed to go to war over it.

AIPAC? *When was that organization even founded? *I'll bet it
didn't exist in 1945, which is when you claim "we" created the
Palestinian problem. * And as I pointed out, the Palestinians were
already having uprising, revolt, much like today even in the 1920s.
That area has been full of conflict and war for centuries.
To try to pin this specifically on the USA sending Jews there
after WWII is just bogus.

The problem is not the conflict, it is the US involvement in the
conflict. AIPAC drives that.

Africa is always in conflict but we do not perceive that as a US
interest.









Unfortunately that would not have helped us pacify
Germany.
I believe they did owe the Jews massive reparations but we did not
make the Germans pay, we made the Palestinians pay and they have been
paying more and more every year since.

Again, who is this "we"? *It was Russia that proposed the
resolution in the UN for Israeli statehood.

"We" *is the US
The Soviets were as antisemitic as the Germans and French who were
happy to export the refugees.

So, it's as I thought. *You place the blame for creating the
Palestinian
problem on the USA? * The USA was not the sole determinent of what
transpired in post war Germany. *The UK and Russia played a role. *If
the USA could have dictated what happened, do you think there would
have
been a communist Eastern Europe? *And it wasn't like all or even most
of the displaced Jews wanted to return or remain in a country that
had
been shoving them in ovens..... * The USA's fault? *Those Jews came
from all over Europe, including parts controlled by Russia.

I said antisemitic people all over Europe supported the refugees going
somewhere else.

Oh and as far as reparations, which you claim should have been
required to be made to the Jews, you're wrong on that too.
Reparations
WERE made by Germany.

Cite that











*The new settlements on the West Bank are a threat to world peace and
it is just a matter of time before it spins out of control.

I agree that the one thing that Isarel is doing that isn't helfpful
is building more settlements. * But if you compare that to the
Palestinian position, which has been and continues to be that
Israel doesn't have a right to exist, it's not the major problem.

They think this is a nation that continues to expand into new
territory as long as it exists. The nazis called it *Lebensraum when
they did it.

Comparison of Jewish settlements to Nazis noted. *I seem to
recall that there is a internet tenent that says whoever first invokes
Nazis has lost the argument.

Without the Nazis, this whole issue would not exist.
The parallels are still valid tho.









It certainly does not help that we are quickly losing all the North
African dictators who we have been paying off for a half century to
ignore it.

When the Muslim Brotherhood takes over Syria, Jordan and the Emirates
it is, game over.

Which seems to indicate that you recognize which side in
this conflict is really the loons.....

Both side are loony

Not from my perspective. *Israel is willing to let the Palestinians
exist.
The Palestinians continue to call for the destruction of Israel.
Israeil
responds to terrorists and rockets *with targeted strikes, to try to
hit only
terrorists and minimize collateral damage. * The Palestinians plant
bombs
on busses, send suicide bombers to kill children. *Israel places a
similar value on human life as other western countries. *The
Palestinians
not so much. * And then look at what happens when Israel does give
the Palestinians some of what they want. *Take Gaza for example.
Israel unilaterally withdrew. *The Palestinians response? *They
elected
the PLO as their govt and are using the territory to launch rockets
into
Israel.

You are confusing Hamas with the PLO,
... or are all "towel heads" the same to you?
The fact is, Israel has consistently been expanding into Palestinian
areas.
If your neighbor kept moving his fence farther into your yard, you
would be mad too.
When the power scale was shifted the other way it was the Israelis who
were the terrorists.
The Israelis are treating the Palestinians within their borders as
second class citizens and they do not have a voice in the government.
The Palestinian areas of the West bank are clearly walled off ghettos.
You can see why it is so easy to make the parallel.

And don't forget the Gaza concentration camp.