On Friday, February 1, 2013 1:07:18 PM UTC-5, Delvin Benet wrote:
On 2/1/2013 6:14 AM, rangerssuck wrote:

On Friday, February 1, 2013 2:06:08 AM UTC-5, Delvin Benet wrote:

On 1/31/2013 4:08 PM, rangerssuck wrote:



On Thursday, January 31, 2013 6:26:44 PM UTC-5, Delvin Benet wrote:



On 1/31/2013 2:48 PM, rangerssuck wrote:







On Thursday, January 31, 2013 5:16:56 PM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:







Sorry, Chris, that this is a mess. I'm rusty and I messed it up.















Hey, Ed -















Welcome back. I *thought* this might draw you out from under your rock. Thanks for responding to Chris - even at your rustiest, your writing is very well thought out and to the point.















What you said about registration is exactly what I meant. If you can't keep track of the guns, how can you know how they are getting into the hands of the criminals? I fail to see how this places any restrictions on any law-abiding person to bear arms.















You *don't* know how the guns got into the hands of the bad guys, even







*with* registration. You don't know if it was stolen, borrowed, sold







outside dealer channels, or anything else. Besides, a gun first has to







be recovered from a criminal, but frequently they aren't - if the gun is







stolen, it will often be simply discarded or passed on to some other







criminal.















The only rationale you've given for registration is unsound.







What you DO know (with registration) is who the last registered owner was.







*IF* the gun is recovered and tied to the crime. So, what does that get



you? Specifically: how does it prevent any gun crime? That's supposed



to be goal, remember?















If he loaned it to someone, it would still be his property and his responsibility.







You might be able to prosecute the owner for some kind of criminal



negligence, but you still have the fact that the gun was used in a gun



crime - the crime wasn't prevented. What good did registration do? None.











If it was stolen, it would be the owners responsibility to report it as such.







Suppose he reports it, and the gun is still subsequently used in a



crime. What good did registration do? None.











If it was sold outside dealer channels, well, isn't that EXACTLY what we're talking about? The registration would have to be transferred, just as it is for a motor vehicle.







Where's the enforcement? This is effectively the same as if it had been



stolen. What good did registration do? None.











What's so difficult about that?







The registration had *ZERO* effect in preventing gun crime. That's



*supposed* to be the goal.















Guns are frequently not recovered from criminals, but they sometimes are.







How often?











It is, with the NRA's help damn near impossible to trace those guns back to determine how they got into the hands of the criminals. A registration mechanism would help with that.







It wouldn't prevent any gun crime. That's *supposed* to be the goal.



That's what the gun-grabbers are touting as the benefit. In fact, there



is *NO* benefit in terms of gun crime prevention - *ZERO*.











Obviously, it's not going to eliminate all crime, but it's a significant step in the right direction.







Only if what you consider to be the "right direction" is ultimate



confiscation. That's the only thing it might help to achieve.



By your logic, there should be no laws at all.



No, that doesn't follow from my logic at all. That would only follow

from your comical and *illogical* understanding of my logic.







Yes, it is illegal to murder, but that doesn't prevent even a single murder.



The illegality of murder *does* prevent many homicides. It does so

because murder is punished upon conviction, and the punishment is a

deterrent.





It is illegal to drive over the speed limit, but that doesn't prevent speeding.



See above about murder.





It is illegal to rob a bank, but what good does that do?



See above.







So, why not just abolish all laws?



Laws should be passed ONLY if they have some logical connection with the

goal to be achieved. Gun registration has *no* connection with

preventing gun violence. It doesn't even serve a useful purpose for

trying to capture and prosecute people who commit gun crimes.

Gun registration would help to achieve those goals by making it more difficult for criminals to get the guns that they use to commit the crimes.

But, you'll disagree with that so...

OK, then let's drop the ball in your court. What do YOU think would help to prevent gun violence? What do YOU think would help to capture and prosecute people who commit gun crimes?