On Nov 29, 12:41*am, wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:02:06 AM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
"Replacing an aging furnace could cost homeowners thousands of dollars more

after May 1, when new federal energy efficiency standards take effect for

northern states, including New Jersey. The new energy-efficient natural gas

furnaces aren t that much more expensive themselves, but they must be vented

directly to an outside wall rather than through the chimney, which can

increase installation costs dramatically ..."

Similar rules will latch in for A/C in the southern climates.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/berg...may_make_repla...

But, but, but ... it's for the CHILDREN !

Im the owner of New England Heating and Cooling. My name is robert, and
my website address is *http://www.newenglandheatingandcooling.comi've been in this bussiness for 20 years and i must disagree about cost on new 95% vs 80% AFUE furnace.

As stated in the article, the new EPA regulation makes 90%+
the new minimum available in the northern states. So, the correct
comparison isn't between 80% and 95%, it's between 80% and
90%.


First of all 95 and 96 % are very different from one another in cost
and function. A 80% furnace with an output of 80,000 btu's will cost
around 850$ and is around 600-800 to install. a 95 is a single stage
furnace with an ecm motor in the blower section.


It's not true that 90% or even 95% means the furnace must have an ECM
blower.
90%+ furnaces are available with conventional PSC type motors as
well.




This ECM motor is a huge cost upgrade and the control board to run it
is also very costly. these motors start quiet and run on d.c. voltage
and can cost up to 600$ alone.

Yes, for a replacement part, probably true, because like any
appliance, the manufacturer can get away with it. But clearly
as part of a new furnace, the cost differential is maybe a couple
hundred bucks. If I break a shelf in my fridge, it's gonna cost
$75 too, but the cost for that shelf in the new appliance is
probably $7.50. It is a fair issue that if it blows up, the
repair cost could be substantially higher than a PSC motor and
folks should factor that in, when deciding if they want an
ECM motor. But this is a side issue, not directly relevant
to the 90% reqpt because there are 90% furnaces available
with PSC motors, just like the 80% ones, too.



this 95% afue furnace is between 1200 and 1400. the 96 is a fully
modulating burner furnace and an ECM motor combined. this furnace can
run 1700-2500 depending on size and model#. it also requires a
communicating thermostat that will run 150$ and the pvc venting
associated with all 90+ units. after labor a 96% AFUE furnace can run
4000 if you have an inspection from the town. Your local inspectional
services requires an electrician to installb a hard wired CO detector
and the line voltage, a plumber for the gas line, and an hvac sheet
metal mechanic to pull a mechanical permit for the ductwork. dont
forget a condensate pump and a way to (legaly) discharge the
condensate into the homes plumbing (it cant go outside due to the unit
running in the winter and it could freeze, and some towns require an
acid neutrilizer to be compliant with code. This is not a small job as
it was so easily satted in the last post. as a matter of fact, venting
is a small part of the increased cost of the higher efficiency
furnaces mandated by the end of the year. if anyone has any questions
about this issue feel free to call us at 781-535-2045 and we will try
to help. Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Again, you're comparing the wrong things. You're comparing a 95%
fully modulating, ECM blower furnace to a basic 80% model. The
new regulation only says the minimum furnace has to be 90%.
There are 90%+ furnaces available without all those extra
features and they only cost a couple hundred more than the
$800, 80% furnace.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean by:

"This is not a small job as it was so easily satted in the last post.
as a matter of fact, venting is a small part of the increased cost
of the higher efficiency furnaces mandated by the end of the year. "

If venting is a small part of the increased cost, then what
other work is there that makes it "not a small job" as compared
to an 80% furnace? Hauling it into the basement, gas work
electrical, connecting to ducts, etc are the same. With the
condensing furnace you do need to add a condensate pump,
but that isn't a big deal either. I see the direct venting,
particularly in some worse case scenarios, as being the
biggest issue. And also, I thought the new rule goes into
effect in May, not the end of the year?