On Nov 28, 11:26*am, George wrote:
On 11/26/2012 5:45 PM, wrote:



On Nov 26, 2:07 pm, George wrote:
On 11/26/2012 11:43 AM, wrote:

On Nov 26, 9:47 am, George wrote:
On 11/26/2012 8:03 AM, wrote:

On Nov 25, 1:05 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 08:09:11 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
Yep. As far as cars go if it were left up to the market place we
would still be driving cars getting 18 mpg at best with zero safety
equipment.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

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If the market is incapable of innovation, then how
exactly do you explain the cell phone, PC, cordless drill,
and all the other items that have a long history of innovation
that has driven cost down, increased features, etc?

There are differences. *The marketplace needs innovation that can be
seen. *Take a poll and I bet 95% would choose a Smart phone over a Cat
converter in their car.

You can't see a difference in your energy bill? * When I
replaced my 25 year old furnace, my energy bill was cut
by almost half.

I have multiple family members and friends in various aspects of housing
and Ed is right on target. They say they have been asked about leaving
out insulation or forget about that higher efficiency furnace in favor
of getting bragging rights for that granite countertop.- Hide quoted text -

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The issue isn't getting a higher efficiency furnace instead
of countertops. * The issue is that the cost of a high
efficiency 90%+ furnace, installed, *in the vast majority of cases is
about the same as getting a 90%+ furnace.
So, virtuallly everyone replacing one can do the math,
figure it out, and make the appropriate choice.
The new EPA rule doesn't require anyone to buy a new
furnace or replace a furnace instead of countertops.
It just forces you to buy a 90%+ furnace instead of an
80% one.

I've said it about ten times now. *I went out for bids two
years ago. *Of the 4 firms, not one quoted or even
mentioned eqpt that was less than 90% efficient. *I
know a few people who bought new gas furnaces
here in the NJ area over the last few years. *Not one
of them bought less than 90%.

Some people have circumstances where they may choose an 80% furnace as
a better solution. *The article gave
some examples. *Suppose it's going to cost $2,000
more for that 90% one because of installation issues?
Or suppose it's a ski house that you use only 3 weeks a
year? * *It bothers you that people have the choice of
instead getting a 80% furnace? * How about faced with
the new EPA forced ruling, they just keep the old 60%
efficient furnace. * That make you happy? *Why do you
want govt forced solutions to fake, phony problems that
don't exist? * Let me guess. *You're a lib.

Don't know about that but I do recognize someone who with fit right in
with the other 10 year olds on the schoolyard...- Hide quoted text -

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See, here's the problem. * You have no arguments on
the facts. * You don't even know the facts. * Yet you
want to tell the rest of us how to live. *In fact, you're so
dumb that you gave your endorsement to the idea
that you can't afford not to get a new furnace if you can
save $2,300 in fuel cost over the next 15 years. * Only
problem, which even a 10 year old could figure out,
is that the new furnace is gonna cost $4,000. * And
that doesn't even factor in the time value of money,
a concept which I'm quite sure is beyone your grasp.
And I think a lot of folks here will tell you that the
life expectancy of a new furnace you buy today is
15 years or so. * So, what you think is a swell idea,
is actually a losing proposition.

So, yeah, when I see someone dumb as a brick
endorsing forcing their ideas on the rest of us
through big govt, because they think we're the
dumb ones, *I get annoyed.

I fully understand you have a filter which only allows you to consider
one point of view and everyone else is stupid. I still don't get what
you hope to accomplish by behaving like a 10 year old with the name calling.- Hide quoted text -

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Excuse me, name calling? What name exactly did I
call you? YOU on the other hand just called me a
ten year old and accused me of extreme right wing
thinking, just because I think citizens are smart enough
and should have the freedom to choose the furnace
they want without govt forcing it on them. Yet YOU
accuse me of considering others
stupid? You are one of the folks here claiming people
are too stupid to choose a furnace that makes economic
sense for them and they need guys like you to do it
for them.

In fact, all you appear capable of are
general vague accusations, which is all you're left with
since you have no refutation of the facts that I have
given you repeatedly.