On Nov 26, 2:09*pm, George wrote:
On 11/26/2012 11:32 AM, wrote:



On Nov 26, 9:53 am, George wrote:
On 11/25/2012 11:09 AM, wrote:

On Nov 25, 11:00 am, Harry K wrote:
On Nov 24, 7:32 am, mike wrote:

On 11/24/2012 7:18 AM, dpb wrote:

On 11/24/2012 8:46 AM, wrote:
On Nov 24, 9:33 am, Home wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
"Replacing an aging furnace could cost homeowners thousands of
dollars more after May 1, when new federal energy efficiency
standards take effect for northern states, including New Jersey..

Because the sale of single-stage (regular efficiency) furnaces will be
prohibited - right?

The new energy-efficient natural gas furnaces aren t that much
more expensive themselves,

Really?

Yes, really. Unless you think $200 or $300 more for a
gas furnace that is 93% efficient instead of 80% is a lot
of money.
...

Well, that's not the difference that is significant--80% requires forced
draft as well. It's the difference between them and natural draft that's
the biggie.

Old natural draft had up to about 78% efficiency ratings but beyond that
the condensation problem is insoluble w/o forced draft...most old
furnaces were perhaps 65% or so if towards mid-later years and probably
closer to 50% if early...

While _a_good_thing_ (tm) overall to improve efficiency, I'm still of
the opinion that the market should control rather than mandates.

--

I'd agree in principle. *Problem is the short-sighted cheapskate attitude
that many of us have.
How many cars would have somog abatement if it was a luxury option?
Sometimes, you just gotta bite the bullet and force it.
If you don't like the way your leadership operates, elect new leadership.

Goods as durable as houses outlast the original cheapskate.

Yep. *As far as cars go if it were left up to the market place we
would still be driving cars getting 18 mpg at best with zero safety
equipment.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If the market is incapable of innovation, then how
exactly do you explain the cell phone, PC, cordless drill,
and all the other items that have a long history of innovation
that has driven cost down, increased features, etc?

But stuff like safety features and fuel economy are proven not to be big
selling points. Take a pickup truck frame and fluff it up with every
possible feature and a huge engine and it sells itself because of the
imagined status.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which proves exactly what? * That you want to stop
people from buying a pickup truck too?

In answers your question about what sells in a marketplace.

Honest question. Are you capable of anything beside total right wing
extremist thinking?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't believe it's right wing extremist thinking to believe
that govt should not be passing more rules to regulate
non-existent problems and in the process creating a
bigger govt that's taking away more and more of our
freedoms. And I don't think it's extremist right wing
thinking to believe that people have enough sense to
figure out if an 80% or 90% furnace is right for them
and then make their own choice.
In other words, I don't have the condescending attitude
that I or govt knows what's best for everyone and the
gall to use govt to force them into it.

Is it right wing to point out that this is a non-problem?
That people are already moving to 90%+ furnaces when
it makes sense for them? That of 4 contractors, not
one even quoted me less than a 90% furnace two
years ago? That it's wrong to use the
heavy hand of govt to then force the small minority that
may have valid perfectly valid reasons for choosing
an 80% furnace to instead use a 90%?

Why can't libs just leave people free to choose?
Is that so right wing extreme?