"Bob Eager" wrote in message
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:54:27 +0100, tim..... wrote:

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:56:29 +0100, tim..... wrote:

"charles" wrote in message
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In article , tim.....
wrote:

"alan" wrote in message
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On 09/09/2012 09:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


It doesn't take 5 grand to valet a car so there is no trace left
of it being smoked in.

The lease company wouldn't spend more than 5 minutes examining it
and then sending it to auction in the same state it was returned.

The 5 grand would be a combination of the reduction in the resale
value and a (previously stated) penalty for breaking the terms and
conditions of the lease.

Such penalties are not legally valid and cannot be enforced. Only
government bodies can fine you for not doing what you are told,
everybody else has to confine themselves to claiming for "actual
loss", which in this case is completely covered by the reduction in
value as there is no extra admin involved if they just send it to
the auction whatever the condition.

It entirely depends on the terms of the contract.

No it doesn't, it depends upon the law, and UK law specifically bans
the collection of Punitive damages in any type of contact - only the
government may punish you. Any contract clause that attempts to do so
will always be void.

Tell that to Ryanair.

So which of Ryanair's fees is a penalty for breach as opposed to a
charge for a service?

£60 for printing a boarding pass? Not the true cost.

You misunderstand the (legal) concept of a penalty.

The quantum of a charge does not making something a penalty. If the item in
question is "core" goods/service that the supplier provides, they can charge
whatever the market will bear for those goods/service.

A penalty is something which is a "fine" for a breach of the rules. (Then,
if something is a penalty, the fee must be no more than actual cost - more
or less).

I accept that this particular charge is near the boundary between the two,
but on balance it does just look like a charge for service, BICBW IANAL
etc...

tim