Michael Joel wrote:

I guess I'm the only one who have heard scientists say that science is
not in the business of proving facts? And if there are facts then why do
they keep getting changed? A fact is something that can't change.

Science is not in the business of proving facts. Science doesn't prove, it only
disproves. If enough attempts to disprove something fail, that something is
believed to be true. Always subject to some successful attempt to disprove it.


I guess it must be me - if an out come is different then it is very
likely to be (or must be) different no matter how you measure it. That
is the proof that one test was wrong - never of course proof that
somethiing may be wrong with the theory.

Nonsense. One test is never proof of anything. One test is evidence in
support of a theory or evidence against the theory (or hypothesis).


Your saying that if light is found 1 out of 10,000 tests to travel 1
meter per hour instead of the 300,000 then the theory that light travels
at 300,000 meters per second is still good [...]

300,000 meters per second is still good, pending understanding of the outlying
test result. That understanding could lead to a whole new theory of physics.
Look up Michelson-Morley and special relativity.

First not elevate it beyond a faith. That is all it is - faith that a
group of people have got it right (or at least close to right). It is
taught in school - yet school can't deal with other faiths.

Science is indeed a faith in that it is anchored in beliefs that cannot be
proven. Roughly, these a

1) The universe operates by a fixed set of laws.
2) These laws are the same for everyone everywhere.
3) These laws can be determined by observation.

It isn't just science. In the "advanced" modern world we have an expert
for everything. You expert for roofing, expert for plumbing, expert for
car work, expert for your lawn, expert for your health, expert for your
knowledge, expert for your religion. "Well He's/She's the expert."i

Yep. Our world is too complex for everyone to know everything. It has been
that way for centuries.

Wow? It does? There sure seem to be a lot of mistakes in science and
their "developments" to say it works? How many people have been killed
or hurt because science said it works - and it doesn't (or at least not
that time)?

You are looking for perfection in a human endeavor? Good luck.

You seem to confuse the unavoidable fact with the field of science.
A plane flies not because of scientific research. In fact if I recall
history (what we get of it) inventors got the plane working not
scientist. Scientist then try to tell us why it works.

The Wright brothers were pretty damn fine scientists. Great inventors, too.
They discovered that Lilienthal's aerodynamic data was just plain wrong and did
the research needed to get it right.


I know the answer - but they corrected it... yes. They always are right,
because the only time the admit being wrong is when they say they were
(they don't listen to others) and then of course they are right because
they have already changed their minds. Ahh. I am always right, unless I
am wrong - but since I am the only one to say when I am wrong - I am
then right again.

That's the great thing about science. Anybody can say it is wrong. Don't
expect to be taken seriously unless you have data to back you up.


-- Doug