On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 22:19:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 18:24:16 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 02:33:54 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 23:31:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT), "Gramp's shop"
wrote:

Here's an interesting piece found in the online New York Times equating the business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/bu...y.html?_r=1&hp

Remember that quote in Pogo "we have met the enemy and it is us".

Sometime in about the 60's or 70's, society decided that blue collar
work was not as good as white collar and professions where you did not
do that manual labor. College was more affordable and Dad, who worked
on the line an a factory, was able to send one of his kids off to
college.

Hmm, am I wrong, or did Home Depot become ubiquitous sometime after the '60s
or '70s?

Perhaps college should be made more affordable. Perhaps professors should
actually teach

What do you think they are doing? Times have already changed.

Research. Writing proposals for research.

and student loans should be abolished (or at least greatly
reduced)? Maybe get rid of scholarships, too.

May as well get rid of auto financing while you're at it.
And mortgages too--they are evil!

...and I thought you wanted to middle class to be stronger.

That was an example of hyperbole--exaggerating your suggesting that
student loans and scholarships should be abolished!

Student loans should be abolished because they do exactly the opposite of what
they're intended to do.

Oh, well.

I can't help it if you can't follow along.


If you wanted to improve the economics, you might have colleges screen
students and turn away one they expect might not be as competitive
following graduation. But that would not be very democratic or popular.
However, that is similar to the way things are done in China, I believe.

Following graduation?

I said "screen"! That means before admitting students. Phoenix, the
online university, is an example of a fraud (from what I've heard).

OK, I didn't understand your meaning. I'm certainly not against minimum
standards but be prepared to be called a racist.

I don't put too much credence into stories about Phoenix. I haven't seen much
information that didn't have an obvious axe to grind (i.e. don't know). OTOH,
from what I gather, they do a good job of finding instructors who have
real-world experience. I am more familiar with ITE (I think that's what it's
called) or DeVry. From the people I've seen come out of there, it's a pretty
good technical school.

How about requiring full disclosure; graduation and employment rates (within
the field of study) at the university, college, and department levels? Publish
it in every marketing blurb.

That's a reasonable idea. Be forewarned that those rates are not
automatically available. Graduates don't automatically keep colleges
aware of what they are up to anymore than they keep the address on their
driver's licences current.

The information is fairly easily had, though. Employers go to the college for
transcripts. A followup wouldn't be impossible. Even statistical information
would be useful.

Note that a department have 40 student majors may only graduate 10 students
a year or less.

I can't parse this sentence.

The results may not
statistically significant and angle shooters would appear. For example,
do students receiving "work-study" support count as employed? How about
students who go on to graduate school?

Of course not. They're counted as continuing education, which in itself
causes a problem with the disclosure.