Swingman wrote in
:

On 7/3/2012 11:06 AM, Han wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:

On 7/3/2012 10:31 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

Colorado has seperate mineral rights from land rights. So the
people have no control. And wherever they are drilling the water
gets polluted and contaminated. And eventually the problem spreads
out much farther.

But you're right, and I'm wrong.

Well, you are most definitely suspect in your condemning an entire
industry (an industry which has brought you the building blocks of
most of the modern conveniences of life since the late 1800's) based
on your above blanket belief/sentiment.

Just limiting my discussion to fracking. By itself, the process
should be just fine. It's the unintended parts that are the problem.
It is without doubt that this type of mining can generate small
earthquakes. Thus it is entirely possible that at some point a path
is generated by which the gas that is the aim of the drilling also
gets into groundwater or aquifers rather far above the intended
mining area. On top of that, there is the pollution generated by the
waste water and waste chemicals that are now most often just dumped
in situ or trucked away and dumped in the nearest legal area. All
legal pollution that isn't helping anyone. Add to that probems with
insufficient sealing of the drill holes, and the disturbances of the
neighbors.

I'm all in favor of getting the gas, but there needs to be far more
control over the consequences. It may indeed be proven that the
water coming from the faucet isn't flammable from the gas the
drillers went for, but ther is gas there now, where it wasn't before.
Etc, etc.

I'm not a geologist, but I was raised by one (who was intent on
teaching me continually about the exploration end of the business from
day one), grew up in the oil and gas "bidness", and have hired a few
in a past life. I agree about the potential for frac'ing, particularly
in some formations, causing problems.

I also think that corporate misbehavior, particularly of the criminal
kind, like yesterday's announced GlaxoSmithKline settlement, should be
punished by prison time for those personnel in the corporate hierarchy
who both authorized it and/or looked the other way.

I spent two tours in the Army as the Commanding Officer of a military
unit, one in a combat zone. In each case it was _I_ who was ultimately
responsible for everything that happened in that command during my
tenure.

Had there been criminal activity of which I had even a suspicion,
there is NO doubt that I would have been held accountable and paid the
price in military prison.

I expect our congress, and legal system, to hold corporate involvement
in criminal activity, regardless of the industry, to that same
standard ... unfortunately the lobbyist, lawyers and legal system work
to insure that will never be so.

Another cause for disillusionment, as age and somewhat more wisdom set
in ...

I spent some vacation time on the same trip as a member of the unit that
investigated the Massey mine disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Big_Branch_Mine_disaster
I asked point blank whether the higher ups in the mining company were
responsible. And he said Oh yes, they were, but it is all about
plausible deniability, they are too insulated by lawyers etc. Now the
company that bought Massey did get saddled with much more liability than
they had counted on ...

And yes, I think that higher ups in companies like SKF, Barclays, JP
Morgan, &tc, &tc should spent some time in the klink.
--
Best regards
Han
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