On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:34:17 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 10:51 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:04:28 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 4/11/2012 7:52 AM, Han wrote:
Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 4/10/2012 10:01 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
snip
Whatever the market will bear. Damn the torpedos, full retail ahead!
And that's OK, as long as CONgresscritters don't force them down our
throats. I'm just as happy with my Makitas and HF tools as you are
with your Festools, and that's the way it should be.

What in the world are you talking about, what is being forced down
your throat? I am certainly not having any thing forced down my
throat. If I don't want to buy something I simply don't buy it....
snip

Larry may be referring to the SawStop, perhaps? It isn't Congress,
directly, but the institution(s) they set up (Product Safety Commission?)
that may or may not "force" that saw on us.


Larry has a love hate relationship with SawStop.

True. I like the concept. But I'm in extreme disagreement with the
way the inventors went about the process. If they hadn't wanted so
much money, one or more of the manufacturers would have jumped at the
chance to offer the first saw equipped with the technology. And for
them to side against Ryobi, who dropped the contractual agreements
with SS, is extremely unethical in my books. It's not the sawstop,
it's the persons behind it which get my dander up.

Pot, Black, Larry

If they hadn't wanted so much money one or more of the manufacturers
would have jumped at the chance to offer the first saw equipped with the
technology. Did you just make that up? Did you assume that? Did a
manufacturer actually say that???

I got that from the text of an early story on this whole ugly episode.
They complained about the fees.


IMHO on one wanted to start "the change" Yes cost would have been more
but absolutely not prohibitively expensive... Saw Stop is not having an
issue with actually going from an idea to a start up company and selling
thousands.

Compared to the other selling hundreds of thousands annually, that's a
small number. And the price of the saws SS sells is waaay up there.


Obviously the competition guessed and gambled wrong. They turned down
the opportunity to be the first and to be in the position that Saw Stop
is in today.

g


Did the guys at SawStop proceed in a way that ****ed a few people off?
Absoluteness! It ****es me off that the other manufacturers did not
want us to see this happen by not even giving it a try. But I'll get
over it, life is too short to worry about how Delta, or Jet, or
Powermatic are going to make out should this standard be mandated. they
had their chance and watched it go by.

Did you just make that up? g See if you can prove that the mfgrs
didn't want us to see this happen.

See if you can learn the truth behind the rejections, eh? I'll bet
that you aren't so proud of your Gassy friend after that. /guess


And again, even if you will no longer be able to buy a TS without This
technology you are not being forced to buy it. Use a hand saw if you
are so inclined to not buy the product, the decision is all .

For one man [actually a (is "toxic" redundant here?) set of 4
attorneys] to monopolize an industry via regulations is antithetical
to what our United States Gov't means to me.

Apply that to your seat belts and unleaded gas.

The cost of seatbelts or gas is extremely small compared to the cost
of the car. The added safety was felt to be worth it by both the
gov't and most of the people, so it was instituted.


I can only imagine the discussions that would have been had when the
regular guard was mandated. Surely that increased the price of every
saw, way back when, when most people did not have an extra dollar or two
to spend each month. It knocked plenty out of the market for a new saw.

A few bucks for a guard vs. a few HUNDRED for a safety mechanism.
That's not -quite- on the same level, is it?

Actually yes it is on the same level. When the current regular guard
was mandated most using these saws did not have a dollar or two to
spare. It is all relative. Gas and vehicles are about 20 times more
expensive than 40 years ago, those guards go back farther. Now lets
take a $300 Saw Stop option and divide that by 20 and I get $15, all
things being relative..

I paid $119 for my refurb Ryobi saw. A $300 option would have put it
up to about $600 retail. Lots of people buy the cheap 10" saws, Leon.
Not everyone can afford $4k for a SS or Unisaw. Check your reference
levels.


We in this day and age are not unique from earlier decades, we still
have things we oppose but we do still have a choice to buy or not to
buy, just as they did then. My grand father himself built several
homes for his family, my mother and her two daughters, and a couple of
sisters, and sister in-laws. According to my mother, in the mid 40's,
power tools were still not in the budget to build the last that he built.

This is no different.

Bull! There was no regulation back then like the one which threatens
us now, thanks to SS.

None that "you" know of, do some research.

Do you know of specific regs back then? If so, let me know. There
weren't many. The nanny state came up way later. We grew up in it.


Does Ralph Nader ring a bell?

I guarantee he wasn't ruining Corvairs or contractor lives in the
'40s.

--
Let no man imagine that he has no influence. Whoever he may be, and
wherever he may be placed, the man who thinks becomes a light and a power.
-- Henry George