Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Lamb wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Tim Lamb wrote
As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for
cooking.
Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel.
Makes sense to me.
Then you dont have a clue about how agricultural production works.
I think I do:-)
You clearly dont if you cant see the problem with that particular claim.
I am very happy for you to explain where my thinking is wrong.
Did that in what you snipped.
Don't think so.
Fraid so.
Not according to my newsreader.
You must have seen it, you replied to that post and snipped that bit.
Perhaps you would care to put your explanation back in?
There just arent enough cars in britain that are diesel powered to produce a
shortage of cooking oil if some of them started using cooking oil in their cars.
The world production of cooking oil leaves that for dead.
It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that
was economically viable.
I am not in Eastern Europe.
Irrelevant to where it can be grown.
If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave the best return without depleting soil
fertility.
And thats true of plenty of oil crops.
I don't think this includes Cotton,
You're wrong on that.
Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape.
There are a hell of a lot more crops that are viable for oil there.
Do you have some suggestions?
The other oil crops that grow there fine.
Could you kindly put forward some examples?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetable_oils
Right. So which of those do you consider suitable?
Most of the ones where the oil is a waste product.
With the others, it depends on where you want to grow them.
Russia and the Ukraine is already by far the main source of sunflower oil, so it clearly grows in eastern europe fine
if thats where you want to grow it.
Ah! Right, Sunflowers. We are agreed it grows in Russia and the Ukraine.
So it would grow in eastern europe fine.
Now let us look at the yields. 1.8 tons/ha. Oil content is around 40% for the newer varieties. Can be grown in the UK
South of a line from Norfolk to Dorset. Should suit Australia as it prefers dry sandy soilswith low rainfall.
And in fact quite a bit of it is grown here already and more would
be if western europe stated using it in their cars instead of diesel
because of the very high tax added to diesel in western europe.
Now for the arithmetic....
Dont need to, its already economic right now.
In spades with the oil thats a waste product of hordes of other ag production.
Most arable crops need to be grown as part of a rotation to reduce the build up of pests and diseases.
So you rotate more than just one oil crop if you want to grow oil.
Let us say you grow it one year in four. That is 1.8tons x 0.4 /4 = 0.18 tons of oil/ha.
That calculation is completely bogus. You just rotate various
oil crops, or just rotate it with the other stuff you grow like
wheat etc when you prefer not to grow just oil crops.
And wheat isnt grown like that anyway.
To keep things simple let us use Australia as the example. 6.15% of
the land area is arable so that is 468,503 sq. km or 46,850,300ha so
you could grow 8,433,054 tons of Sunflower oil each year.
That calculation is completely bogus. You can rotate it
with the other stuff like wheat and with other oil crops too.
Road Diesel consumption was 7,007,000 last year
That number is completely bogus too. We were actually discussing
the number of individuals IN BRITAIN, that would choose ot use
cooking oil in their cars and the completely silly claim that the price
of cooking oil in british shops was tripled to stop that happening.
Thats nothing even remotely resembling anything like 7MT of diesel.
so whoopee doo. If you allocate 25% of your entire arable land area you could be self sufficient in road Diesel.
Pity that aint even what was being discussed.
Of course that doesn't help with your 15,000,000 tons of petrol used each year.
We have much better ways of dealing with that, natural gas.
All of the taxis and quite a few of the cars in my town have
being using that in the petrol engines for decades now.
And we produce quite a bit of alcohol for use in petrol too.
And whats sold in western europe doesnt have to come from eastern europe anyway.
True. You suggested the land was available.
I actually said that eastern europe was only one
area where land is available in what you snipped.
I am just trying to establish what information you have to justify the suitability and availability of the land.
Where all these oils are currently grown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetable_oils
So clearly not Eastern Europe in any quantity likely to provide road fuel?
Wrong with sunflower oil most obviously.
And the absolute vast bulk of the oils that are a waste product of other agricultural activity.
FYI Unsuccessful trials on growing Soya where carried out in England some years back.
Pity about all the other oils that grow there fine.
Sunflower is one of the highest oil producing plants grown this far North.
Sure, but plenty of other oils are available as waste from other ag production.
And the oil doesnt have to be produced in britain anyway.
Most of the current cooking oil used in britain isnt.
Very little of the other edible vegetable oils like olive oil is either.
And both of those areas are only a tiny subset of where oil has been
grown succressfully for centurys and for millennia in some cases.
I used Australia in the example above as a relatively underpopulated region.
Under population is irrelevant. **** all would bother to put cooking
oils in their cars in britain, so its irrelevant where it comes from.
There is not enough suitable land in the entire world to
displace more than a few % of our current fossil fuel usage.
Having fun thrashing that straw man ?
We werent even discussing doing that. JUST what would
happen if SOME IN BRITAIN chose ot put cooking oil in
their diesel cars and whether there is any need to triple the
price of cooking oil so britain doesnt run out of cooking oil
and whether there is plenty of land where more oil can be
grown if a few in britain chose to put it in their diesel cars.