In message , Rod Speed
writes
Tim Lamb wrote
As someone else pointed out, if it was cheaper to run the car
on cooking oil, there would quickly be none for
cooking.

Just because someone claims that doesnt make it gospel.

Makes sense to me.

Then you dont have a clue about how agricultural production works.

I think I do:-)

You clearly dont if you cant see the problem with that particular claim.

I am very happy for you to explain where my thinking is wrong.

Did that in what you snipped.

Don't think so. Not according to my newsreader. Perhaps you would care
to put your explanation back in?

It is in fact just plain wrong with western europe with eastern
europe with plenty of space to grow oil if that
was economically viable.

I am not in Eastern Europe.

Irrelevant to where it can be grown.

If I were, I would grow crops which suited the climate and gave
the best return without depleting soil fertility.

And thats true of plenty of oil crops.

I don't think this includes Cotton,

You're wrong on that.

Palm Oil, Olives or continuous Rape.

There are a hell of a lot more crops that are viable for oil there.

Do you have some suggestions?

The other oil crops that grow there fine.

Could you kindly put forward some examples?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetable_oils

Right. So which of those do you consider suitable?

Most of the ones where the oil is a waste product.

With the others, it depends on where you want to grow them.

Russia and the Ukraine is already by far the main source of sunflower oil,
so it clearly grows in eastern europe fine if thats where you want to grow it.

Ah! Right, Sunflowers. We are agreed it grows in Russia and the Ukraine.

Now let us look at the yields. 1.8 tons/ha. Oil content is around 40%
for the newer varieties. Can be grown in the UK South of a line from
Norfolk to Dorset. Should suit Australia as it prefers dry sandy soils
with low rainfall.

Now for the arithmetic.... Most arable crops need to be grown as part of
a rotation to reduce the build up of pests and diseases. Let us say you
grow it one year in four. That is 1.8tons x 0.4 /4 = 0.18 tons of
oil/ha.

To keep things simple let us use Australia as the example. 6.15% of the
land area is arable so that is 468,503 sq. km or 46,850,300ha so you
could grow 8,433,054 tons of Sunflower oil each year.

Road Diesel consumption was 7,007,000 last year so whoopee doo. If you
allocate 25% of your entire arable land area you could be self
sufficient in road Diesel. Of course that doesn't help with your
15,000,000 tons of petrol used each year.


And whats sold in western europe doesnt have to come from eastern
europe anyway.

True. You suggested the land was available.

I actually said that eastern europe was only one
area where land is available in what you snipped.

I am just trying to establish what information you have to justify
the suitability and availability of the land.

Where all these oils are currently grown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vegetable_oils

So clearly not Eastern Europe in any quantity likely to provide road fuel?

Wrong with sunflower oil most obviously.

And the absolute vast bulk of the oils that are a waste product of
other agricultural activity.

FYI Unsuccessful trials on growing Soya where carried out in England
some years back.

Pity about all the other oils that grow there fine.

Sunflower is one of the highest oil producing plants grown this far
North.



And both of those areas are only a tiny subset of where oil has been
grown succressfully for centurys and for millennia in some cases.

I used Australia in the example above as a relatively underpopulated
region. There is not enough suitable land in the entire world to
displace more than a few % of our current fossil fuel usage.

regards



--
Tim Lamb