"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:


decision
to release Zimmerman tends to bolster the theory that a mistake was
made
here.

No, it tends to bolster the theory that the squeaky wheel gets
the
grease and that bureaucrats (especially elected ones like prosecutors
and governors) like to cover their asses. You gonna take the same
position if the other agencies happen to agree with the original
decision?

Yes. But I don't see that happening with all the heat generated
already.

Heat generated, but not a lot of light, which is the main issue here.

If you say so. It's not my main issue.

I've said a number of times that I'm content to wait until the special
investigator finishes. The Martin case may be settled one way or
another,
but the issue of vigilantes, armed neighborhood watchmen and SYG laws
has
only just begun. This case isn't nearly as clear cut as the guy who
shot
someone trying to carjack him. We just don't know what happened
between
those two moments before the shooting.

You are content to wait until the investigator finishes and then you
can hang him?

Jeez, where do you read THAT into what I wrote? You're still angry that I
want to tax the rich like they used to be taxed when this country was at
its
most prosperous. I said "the Martin case might be settled one way or
another." How do you turn that into hanging him? I just don't see it.
No
matter what happens to Zimmerman, there's now going to be a very
wide-based
public discussion of CHL and SYG laws.


Highly doubtful
The same yammering heads from the gun-control side will yammer their
ignorant cant, stupid projections, and usual nonsense.
Most people will yawn and ignore them
The politicians will mouth platitudes and do nothing.
There has been a MAJOR sea-change in gun control, and it's in favor of
LESS...



You are putting all this talk out about waiting but in the
about the same breath you go on about how the heat being generated by
those with more agenda than information and how that somehow seems (at
least my reading of your words) indicates that he is guilty.

Your reading of my words is wrong. "One way or another." Guilty or not
guilty. No matter what that outcome, Pandora's box is now open concerning
SYG and CHL laws - especially all the recent changes in state laws. I
suspect some state will even put the issue to referendum. That's what
happens when enough people decide they don't like a particular law. Take
California's gay marriage law and subsequent referendum.


Very few states hold referendums like California
And this won't be one of those issues, except for the hopeful hoplophobes


Now, because of Zimmerman, guilty or not, we're having a discussion about
vigilantes, armed neighborhood watchmen, what constitutes suspicious
behavior, use of deadly force and more. All because Z shot M.
Irrespective
of him being charged or nolle prossed (actually in FL I think it's called
"No Information Filed) there's going to be a long, hard look at carry and
SYG laws.


Three is no real discussion here
The yammering heads are spouting all kinds of ignorant cant, presumptions
and outright lies about what happened to justify their hoplophobic or racist
agendas
The rest of the people are sitting back and watching the show as the
hoplophobes and racists are spinning their wheels and churning mud.


You're engaging in circular logic Kurt. Have you wondered why the
wheel
is
squeaking? Because enough people feel that a miscarriage of justice
occurred to make it squeak. It wasn't a case of let's make a mountain
out
of a molehill 'just because.' People, especially parents, are worried
that
some vigilante is going to gun down their kids for wearing a hoodie and
being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Better than no logic. So we are now convicting people based on who yells
the loudest or who has the best PR? S

You haven't been paying attention to American history, have you? How is
this different from the hundreds of protests that have come before,
whether
it was the Vietnam War, Watergate, Wisconsin union busting, Muslim mosques
near Ground Zero, etc? Being for a process when it works for you and
against
it when it doesn't seems less than evenhanded. Welcome to America - this
is
how it works.

The politicians are not just covering their asses, they're examining
the
future of the current CHL and SYG laws. Zimmerman initiated the
contact.
In NYC, you learn early in life that you don't even LOOK SOMEONE IN THE
EYE
on the subway lest a confrontation ensue. What happened was going to
happen
eventually as we march back to the Wild West. Eventually we'll
re-learn
why
cities passed gun carrying restrictions in the first place as the
pendulum
swings.

They are covering their asses. Zimmerman was following, at a
distance, you have no idea yet who initiated the contact.

When he left the house, Zimmerman selected and tracked Martin and it seems
Martin became aware of it. Subtract that element and there's no shooting
in
all probability. A good attorney will hammer on that point. He will try
to
convince the jury, if there is one, that Zimmerman left the house looking
for trouble and found it.


YAWN
Spin speech a again
"selected and tracked"
Try "noticed and reported"
There was NO menu of people to "select" from
This was not some forest to "track"..
And it was PERFECTLY LEGAL for him to do so.

Try again,


I can't see how Florida legislators can get by without doing something,
cosmetic or not, about the current laws. Just because a law got passed
doesn't mean people actually support it, whether it's ACA or SYG. The
sheer
size and anger of the response indicates at least some people think the
law
needs to be changed.


yawn

Martin's inability to present his side of the story generates a lot of
doubt
for some people. Hence the wheel squeaks. What you're calling "ass
covering" I call "being a hell of a lot more thorough than the initial
investigation." The mistake in this case could easily be the current
implementation of the Florida CHL/SYG laws. Incidents like this often
serve
as a focal point for change.

That side is being presented by the forensics and facts. Besides
why does he get bestowed with Sainthood because he took the bullet?

Why? Because there's no appellate court that can reverse his deadness.
How
many black parents do you think have kids that have had run-ins with
authorities of some kind? I'll bet most of them see the attempts to
portray
Martin as a sociopath worry that the same would happen to their kid in
similar circumstances. Hell, at that age I had a "record" of sorts. That
didn't stop me from getting a TS clearance, a CHL permit, etc. Forensics
and facts can only say so much about what happened. Z can say almost
anything he wants without any chance of refutation. Being able to
confront
your accuser is a cornerstone of American justice and that becomes
difficult
when your accuser is working from the grave.


More spin
Zimmerman was NOT "the authorities"
And remember that according to the FBI UCR report, blacks on white killings
are DOUBLE white on black killing, even though blacks are 1/6 the population
(12%/72%).
And black-on-black killings are the same TOTAL NUMBERS than white on white,
again when blacks are 1/6th the population of whites
That means Blacks have 6-12 times the propensity to kill others than whites.
So frankly, although I may be sympathetic to individual tragedies, I'm not
very sympathetic when people try to play the race card.
And if the black community doesn't like that reality, it's for them to wake
up, smell the coffee, and CHANGE that part of their culture which is the
cause of it.

The race apologists are NOT helping to solve what is in fact a cultural
problem that has evolved in the last 60+ years


How could he or how did he tamper with the crime scene. The cops
had
already done most of the crime scene evaluation, they had taken his
gun,
they had taken their photos, etc. If they hadn't been through with
the
scene, they still had custody and he wouldn't have been able to
tamper
with anything.

Please. You're *assuming* that they were thorough. I've worked with a
lot
of small police departments (the DC area has over 25 different local
police
agencies). Very few of those interactions gave me any reason to
believe
in
their thoroughness or investigatory skills. The *real* cops (often the
state police or the FBI) were lucky not to have the whole crime scene
contaminated by the local cops. Forensic techs used to lament loudly
the
butchering of crime scenes when the first responders were "township"
cops.

Actually I am not. I am assuming that whatever was done was done, but
if they had released the crime scene nothing would have been admissable
anyway, at least without a bunch of hassle. If they hadn't let go of
the scene, then they should have left it secured and he wouldn't be able
to get to it anyway.

Secured? A township police department? Not bloody likely.


Another stupid presumption
Apparently you don't seem able to avoid them for your agenda.


Tampering of the crime scene (another little of lightless heat) is a
non-issue.

Just because you say it's a non-issue? Sorry, I'll have to pass. There
are
all sorts of idiots running around on both sides capable of anything. The
more people like Sharpton are involved, the more I suspect witness
tampering.


Yawn

The police have already interviewed most people and those that appeared in
the Media where of the sort,
"I think I heard something" or "I think this is what happened" as
opposed to
"I saw (or heard ) this, this and this" .



I've seen the local small town cops traipse through blood, ruin
fingerprint
evidence, move evidence before photographing it and committing all
sorts
of
other evidentiary atrocities before a forensic expert got to them.
Remember
the cops who took blood from OJ? They were accused of sprinkling it
around
the crime scene hoping (knowing?) it would be discovered in a closer
examination of the area.

And, as in this case, there was no evidence of such happening. But
heat beat out light.

You say there was no evidence yet you were not there collecting any.
Who's
calling the pot black?

The only black pot around here, is you spewing ignorant and unfounded
presumptions every time you dribble your cant.



not worth continuing with the unending list of presumptions