On 4/4/2012 2:03 PM, Hawke wrote:
On 4/3/2012 1:58 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

Look, Dole was taking hundreds of rides on corporate jets for the
price
of a first class ticket.

Not established.

Here's your first **** up. You stated that it was not established that
Dole was taking hundreds of rides on corporate jets for the price of a
first class ticket. My citation shows that is exactly what Dole did. His
own campaign said it was his normal practice and they were going to end
it because it looked "unethical", or in other words it looked like a
gift. So what do you say about that ? It is established, isn't it? So
that makes you WRONG!!!, doesn't it?


Yes it is. You're just too stupid to admit it. Want a cite that proves
it? I guess not, huh? Because that means I'm right again. So check this
out and then I'll be waiting to hear how you try to weasel out.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-...corporate-jets

"The Dole campaign said the practice, in which Dole solicits the use of
a business jet in return for paying first-class air fare for himself and
his entourage, will end when Dole officially announces his candidacy,
probably next month."

Also: "Dole's principal opponent, Vice President George Bush, flies on
Air Force Two, a government-owned plane provided for security reasons.
When it is used for political trips, the vice president and his party
pay first-class fares to the government."

He paid money to fly on the planes. He paid what the vice-president
paid. No one suggested that Bush flying on Air Force 2 while paying for
first class airfare was unethical.

You lose.

No, you did. I proved my point. You then tried to bring in a red
herring, vice-president Bush. He had nothing to do with my allegation
against Dole. I said Dole was taking all kinds of trips on corporate
jets. My citation proved it was true. No one else had anything to do
with my allegation. I proved it.

You now know that what I said about Dole is a fact, so does anyone else
who reads the citation. Now you won't admit it. That tells me one thing
about you. You have no ethics either. Even when shown proof that what I
said about Dole was true you don't have the balls to admit it. What a punk.


He was having corporations giving all kinds of money
to his foundation, Pacs, and other entities he controlled.

But not to him.

Giving donations to foundations and PACs is the same as giving it to the
person.

It's not. The foundation or PAC may only use the money for purposes
specified in the law. Dole didn't acquire any "millions" from it. That's
your charge: that he became a millionaire from unethical conduct. He
didn't get any money into his private accounts from the foundation or
PAC - which, of course, you can't identify anyway.

I didn't say that he got his personal money from his PACs or foundation.
But how those work goes to the unethical activities. Wealthy interests
wanting to buy favors from Dole were guaranteed to get what they wanted
by giving large sums of money not to Dole personally but to the
organizations he controls. Everyone with a brain knows this is just a
way of getting around the rules of giving directly to politicians. You
can't give it to the politician directly so you give it to his pet
projects and his pet organizations that he controls. Your ignorance
prevents you from understanding how this game between politicians and
wealthy interests works.


You want to make the argument that giving someone control of funds
isn't
giving it to him, go ahead.

It isn't established he had control of money that he converted to any
personal use.

Not to the uninformed it probably isn't. But to anyone familiar with how
Washington works it's been established for decades. Foundations are
great examples of how this works. Dole establishes a charitable
foundation and put his friends and family on the board. They solicit
funds from corporations seeking Dole's support for what they want. Dole
and his hand picked board use the money any way they want. They can give
it all to charities and do good work or they can use only a tiny amount
for those kinds of activities. The point is the board is able to use the
money for the benefit of Dole or of those Dole wants to give money to.
It's a racket. But not illegal. Why do you think so many politicians
have them? Because of the goodness of their hearts? In your case you
probably do.



Some of them he does have the control to decide exactly how the money is
spent and some is not.

None of it is part of the "millions" you claim he made.

That's right, money given to those kind of organizations are the kind a
politician can't simply convert to his own personal wealth. They give
him access and the power but he can't put the funds in his name. But he
decides how it is used. So if you have access to and the power to spend
millions of dollars pretty much as you please most folks would call that
your money even if it isn't legally.



So the truth is as I said, Dole made millions when he was in the
senate.

Not proved.

It is to any reasonable person.

It isn't proved at all.


The proof is there for all to see.

No proof.

Here's another article telling about how senators like Dole profited
from their office. It was from 1989 so Dole had 20 years to get all
kinds of outside income from business interests. More proof of Dole at
the trough.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6288,2581013



"Of the total [$173,800 over two years], he kept $62,050 for personal
use and gave $111,750 to charity."

One hardly becomes a millionaire keeping $30,000 a year in honoraria,
you ****wit. ****, you are so stupid - just as we'd expect a poli sci
graduate to be.

You don't know politics, and you sure as **** don't know finance.

Look who's talking. Finance is not economics.

I didn't say it was.



The truth is if Dole put away only 36K a year for twenty years at a 6.5%
interest rate that would be worth more than 1.5 million dollars.

You said he had $16 million, and you suggested he made most of it while
in the Senate.

Anyway, speaking honoraria are not evidence of corruption or any other
form of unethical behavior.




So there you go,

There you go, ****flaps. You lost, again.

You showed yourself

....to be faster, stronger and just better than you.