Mark wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Mark wrote
Ghostrecon wrote
John Rumm wrote

Thats a separate issue to what needs to be taught to them tho.

I would say they are related. Being comfortable with technology,
and know the basic functions of office software is important. As
is decent mouse and keyboard skills. However repeating that over
and over only gets board kids, not better trained ones. (note
there is actually a fair amount of interesting stuff in the ICT
syllabus - alas much of it does not get taught or gets taught in
a veru formulaic way because the teachers don't have deep enough
skills either to really understand what they are doing, and
develop the concepts and explore a little.

True very true - the constantly changing OFSTED criteria
discourage (or at least penalises) the more adventurous
teachers if 'experimentation' goes wrong

If you are in a state school, and ICT is on the
national curriculum, then that is what you get...

I dont believe that thats compulsory for all say hair dressers etc in

ICT is compulsory at the moment if you follow the NC. As I alluded
to, some categories of school have more freedom to interpret
manoeuvre within the constrains of the NC.

+1

the sense that they must all fully grasp what say Word style
sheets are about, let alone some of the more sophiisticated
feaures of Excel.

(although schools are finding their ways around that now)

things like the Pi just make it cheaper and at least make it
possible for just about any parent to also "buy what they use
at school" should schools choose to adopt them.

Sure, but its less clear that something like the Pi
makes more sense than a netbook or a laptop.

However, I expect it being mainly taken up by the self
selecting group that are already into such things.

And it remains to be seen how many kids do, either by
demanding their parents do that or driven by the parents.

But then you can also make a case for teaching quite a bit of
DIY in schools too when so many chose to do stuff like that
after they have finished school too.

and in fact, some schools do. There is a local one here that
teaches building, plumbing, wiring skills etc, and even has
outdoor "pens" so that the trainees can get a feel f what it
is like to work in real world conditions for some of these
tasks.

Sure, I didnt mean to imply that none do, I really just meant
that it may make more sense for most schools do to that
instead of using the Pi in schools, just because thats more
likely to be more use to more of the kids than the Pi would be.

Depends on the kids obviously. If it fires the enthusiasm for
learning some "real" computer science then its worthwhile

I'm not sure that it is if you are proposing all kids should be
forced to use it in school, even the ones that plan to be hair
dressers etc.

I was not proposing that anyone should be "forced" to use any
specific bit of kit. I personally would like to see some of the
basics of software development taught alongside the office apps
skills etc. I suspect however that you would find it easier to
generate enthusiasm for a (say) a small robot being driven round
an obstetrical course by a on board Pi, than one would for
something popping up on the screen of a PC.

now the mind boggles :-) lol

"def?? from wikiyuk
Obstetrics (from the Latin obstare, "to stand by") is the medical
specialty dealing with the care of all women's reproductive tracts
and their children during pregnancy (prenatal period)"

We actually have this, well, pic driven 'mars/moon lander" type
robots on the engineering diploma course avoiding obstacles -
predictably the students love it

And then you have the other entire can of worms, whats best taught
in primary, secondardy, trade schools and university level education.

We don't really have much in the way of trade schools as such here
(I take it you refer to ones that major on vocational training
rather than academia?) which is a shame. Some of the better
comprehensive schools do now have streams that lean this way
however.

We have a stream of pupils some of whom attend colleges doing
different level btec courses, run btec courses in house and the
engineering diploma these number about 100 out of a yeargroup of
400 students - its a right b*gger to schedule i know !!
Unfortunately the present education dept well michael gove is now
against this type of education despite much support fro large
manufacturing companies. Education here is a political footbal.
In the 22 years I have been in it we have changed course about 5
times - it takes an average of 5 years to get changes through (due
to the nature of students growing up) so the system is in effect
constant flux

Very true. I just wish they leave alone and let the teachers do their job.

I'm not convinced that you'd get a very viable result that way.

We have national curricula for a reason.

It isnt viable to have every school do its own thing, let alone every teacher.

A National Curriculum can be useful, especially in low performing schools.

It isnt viable to have every school do its own thing, let alone every teacher.

However it has been too prescriptive and was often a burden to "good" schools.

Sure, any curriculum can be stuffed up.

What was being discussed tho was whether its viable to
let teachers teach anything they like any way they like.

I'm not saying we should have a free-for-all but teachers
do not a lot more about education than government ministers.

Govt ministers dont write the national curriculum.

And continuous changes, often not well thought
out, adds a considerable extra workload.

Sure, any curriculum can be stuffed up.