On Mar 6, 3:26*pm, "Mike Marlow" wrote:
wrote:
If the cabinets are defective, then the cabinets are
defective regardless of who installed them.

Errrrrr - Wrong. *Properly made cabinets can indeed deform if hung
inproperly. *So where does this "regardless of who installed them" thing
come from?

Look, let's take this in context. Another poster, Clare, claimed
that only if the cabinet company who made the cabinets installed
them does the OP have recourse. In response to that I said
that if the cabinets are defective, then the cabinets are defective
regardless of who installed them. Meaning if they were
defective before being installed, then the OP had a legitimate
claim against the cabinet supplier. Now if they were installed
by someone else, I agree that complicates the case.


Yes, some
of the defects he has could possibly be blamed on
installation,

Ok - great contradiction of you first statement.

No contradiction at all. I never said all the alleged defects
were or were not the fault of who made them. Only that
just because someone other than the company who made
them installed them does not mean the OP has no
recourse, which was what Clare stated.




but handles at the wrong height,

Not stated by the OP

"handles not at the same height"

nitpicking now are we?


incorrect
hinge mortising,

Not stated by the OP

He stated:

"poorly mortised hinges (sloppy and
hinges are not flush with the wood), "

more nitpicking

And tell us how the above and warped kitchen cabinet
doors are usually the result of installation. In my world, they
are usually the result of how they were made.



etc is going to be hard to pin on
the installer. *And he does not have to prove any of
that beyond a reasonable doubt, he just needs to prove
it more likely than not it's the fault of the cabinet maker.

Could well be.

It's not a could. To prevail in court it's a fact that you don't
need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.




It would also help if he has pictures of
the cabinets before they were installed, showing the
defects. *If they were defective, I sure would have
taken a picture of them immediately and if they
were bad enough I would have refused delivery.

Yup. *But - the OP does not indicate if that was the case. *Still lots of
unanswered questions.


So, why are you jumping all over me and nitpicking
apart minor differences in words?



One thing that is not mentioned is what is the position
of the guy who built them? * Does he deny there are
defects? * Has he even been asked to make them right?
Courts expect in most cases for you to try to work
with the guy to give him a chance to correct them
before coming to court.

Yup.

I'd get a clear cap UP FRONT
on what you're going to pay him or you'll be having
the next dispute with the lawyer when you get a bill
for $2K without anything having been resolved.

I imagine things are different in different places, but as I said in a
different post - this is pure bullsiht as a generalization. *Certainly, you
can realize significant legal fees, but you can also speak to a lawyer to
understand your position without any cost at all.

Only if the lawyer agrees to do that for free and you better
determine that upfront.



*If anyone gets surprised
by a $2K bill from a lawyer then they deserve that surprise. *Lawyers do not
surprise people with bills - it's all up front. *Shame on anyone that can't
understand that.


And that of course is pure BS. There are plenty of people
who get surprised by lawyers bills, just as they get surprised
by mechanics or tradesmen. In the case of lawyers, it can
be even worse because they frequently bill by the hour.
Are you there to watch how long that phone call really took?
Or if it was necessary? Or how long he spent reviewing
the documents you gave him? Good grief. There are
plenty of lawyers that pad bills, run the clock and there
are some that are outright crooks.

I'll give you one recent small example. A friend had a closing
on a house. He called up several lawyers and got quotes.
The one he selected quoted $1100 for her services.
Half way through the
process in the course of a discussion, she said "My paralegal
is drawing up that... BTW, you're paying extra for her time."
Now that is a good example of how a lawyer
can screw you. You'd expect to pay for title work, FedEx,
etc. But the paralegal that is doing the work you already
paid an attorney for? Totally unethical.