On Mar 6, 11:05*am, westom wrote:
On Mar 5, 7:08 am, RBM wrote:

...: Lightning and voltage spike devices are rated by "
clamping time", which is how fast they can shunt the spike, and by
"joules", which is the size of a spike that they can handle. I can buy
one for $5, and I can buy one for $20,000. I have always passed on the
$20K.

* Protection is defined by the item that absorbs hundreds of thousands
of joules. *That is not a protector adjacent to appliances that does
not even claim to protect from typically destructive surges. *That is
earth ground.

Here we go again with the surge protector nut.
No one said a surge protector absorbs hundreds
of thousands of joules. No one said anything about
"absorb", until you did. But now that will be the
strawman to argue against.



* The *'whole house' protector protects all appliances even from
direct lightning strikes because it connects destructive surges to
earth.

It certainly may, but I would not count on it being 100%
effective and would not be surprised if there
were some damage to AC appliances by a massive
direct lightning hit to a house. In my view, the more realistic
and common scenario is that they will protect against surges
on the incoming AC lines that are caused by nearby lightning
strikes.


The distance to earth is critical (ie 'less than 10 feet'). *A
protector too far from earth and too close to the appliance can
connect that surge to earth destructively via the appliance. *An
adjacent protector does not even claim protection.

Of course the IEEE disagrees and says that the
plug-in, point-of-use type of protectors can and should
be used as part of a tiered protection strategy.



* Your 'whole house' protector also does not protect from surges.
Instead, it connects destructive surges to earth. *Hundreds of
thousands of joules must be absorbed somewhere. *No way around that
requirement.

I guess that's a new version of English that you're using.
By any rational usage, if a whole house protector connects
destructive surges to earth and as a result the electrical gear in the
house is not damaged, then it has indeed "protected from
surges".



* Either you connect that surge to earth BEFORE it can enter the
building. *Or that surge goes hunting for earth destructively via
appliances. *With or without an adjacent protector.

So now a whole house surge protector installed at the
panel in my basement is now useless? Not only the IEEE,
but every surge protector manufacturer that I know of
disagrees.




* A typically lightning strike is 20,000 amps. *A minimally sized
'whole house' protector starts at 50,000 amps. *Direct lightning
strikes must not even damage a protector.

Says who? I live in an area with moderate thunderstorm
activity. My house has NEVER been directly hit by lightning.
Don't know a single person's home who has. I do know of
instances of appliances damaged during thunderstorms
when there were hits somewhere in the nearby area.

Bud already outlined how it's very unlikely a full lighting
surge is going to make it to the surge protector anyway,
because arcing will occur BEFORE the surge protector,
leaving the protector with more likely a 10,000 amp per
phase surge.

So, why is it wrong if I choose to use a surge protector that
can handle 20,000 amps?



*'Whole house' protectors
are sold by the more responsible companies including General Electric,
Leviton, ABB, Siemens, Keison, Polyphaser, Square D, and Intermatic.
A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot even for less
than $50.

I've asked you in the past to show us the link to that $50 mythical
protector
at HD or Lowes that meets your above 50,000 amp miniumum rating.
Yet, here we go again. It's never been provided because it doesn't
exist.





* But again, most important is the item that absorbs those hundreds of
thousands of joules. *Earth ground. *To connect a surge to earth means
a protector must be low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to that
single point earth ground. *This is how it is done in every facility
that can never have damage. *A protector is only as effective as its
dedicated and 'must always exist' connection to earth. * The effective
protector is rated by how much current it can connect to earth. *A
least 50,000 amps.

Then why do electronics manufacturers put surge protection
in their appliances? You have a 10 ft ground on your microwave
oven?