"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

snip

Deeply religious people, including you, tend to slip in and out of
metaphorical speech when you talk about religion. You probably know
just what you mean when you're talking about it; anyone else can only
guess.

Maybe I'm just used to you being well read up on subjects you comment on.

Being familiar with that kind of discourse, I can only remark about
the ironies inherent in the back-and-forth. I don't know what you
mean. But I can't say it matters much to me, because, if I *did* know
what you're talking about, it wouldn't help.

So we'll let it go, with the mutual recognition that I have no clue
about what you mean. But it seems harmless from my perspective, and I
have no desire to actually argue about it. Ok?

--
Ed Huntress

Ok, I'll try to explain.

Many Christian denominations have left the teachings of Jesus and the
Apostles and are more wrapped up in their traditions and religion.

Jesus said his followers would have power to do miracles like he did, and
even greater miracles...

John 14: 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is
in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very
truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been
doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going
to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the
Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my
name, and I will do it.

All four gospels and the apostles taught that Jesus' followers would be able
to perform miracles but that kind of dedication and faith is sort of rare.

Jesus' followers he was speaking to were people that gave up their lives to
follow him, the real deals, not lazy Sunday Christians as most who claim to
be Christians are.

When someone has this kind of relationship with Jesus they trust him and
believe him, they ask for something that is in line with God's will and the
prayer gets answered. They believe based on Jesus' word, not by what they
feel or what they see.

Smith Wigglesworth was one such person to live like this, he was healed of
appendicitis and that was the beginning of his healing and miracle working
ministry. People don't have this miracle working ability within them
selves, they must be connected to Jesus who says He is the vine and we are
the branches. As Jesus said at the end of verse 14 "I will do it".

The kind of people that will be able to do these things will not love the
world or the things in the world, they will not love their life, they will
die to themselves and allow the life of Christ to live through them. Those
that have done this have achieved the results that Jesus promised. Notice
the big name preachers don't fit the mold, they have a couple of mansions on
earth, don't seem to care about storing their treasures in Heaven.

We've heard the claims of faith healers but what about the story of those
who have been healed? I have met this man who's mother was healed by faith:

"Though Jewish, Mother believed in Jesus. This is how she came to believe in
Him. In 1932 she was terminally ill. Father had taken her to doctors and
spent large sums of money, but her condition deteriorated. Finally a doctor
at the hospital told Father to take her home so she could die in her own
bed. This was the custom in Romania, so that people could come and see the
expiring person at home. As she lay dying in bed, Father came to a difficult
decision. He could let her perish in misery before his eyes or seek out a
man of God to pray for her healing. Though not believing in Jesus, he had
heard of people who believed. Some experienced miraculous healings.

Learning of a man who prayed for the sick, Father implored him to come. A
crowd gathered in the house to see Mother for the last time. No one had hope
except for Father. God's man arrived and first spoke to the people. He told
them of miracles God had performed. Then he went to Mother's bedside. She
was in the worst stage. She could not swallow anything solid. She would take
a sip of tea only now and then. The cancer had consumed her body, and
appeared as a massive, red breast ulcer. Everyone considered her as good as
dead.

As the man prayed, a light with the brightness of lightning began to shine
on this cancer-stricken sufferer. When this powerful light shone on her,
Mother sat straight up and began speaking in another language, worshipping
God as her Healer and Deliverer.

Father was horrified, thinking she had lost her mind. The man continued to
pray. She arose, getting out of bed without anyone's help. The moment Mother
stood on her feet, the gathered mass of disease was supernaturally severed
from her body and fell to the floor. There was utter chaos in the room.
Screams! Shouts! People had seen the bright light, and now this! Some rushed
to help Mother, while others ran out of the house in fear.

"Please leave her alone!" the man said. "God is healing her." Mother sank to
her knees, still speaking in the heavenly tongue. A fresh dress was brought
and put on her. Strength returned to her body. Her face was shining. She
could eat food again. The news of this extraordinary healing and recovery
exploded all over the community. Mother herself knew of twenty Jewish
families who became believers in Jesus as Messiah, for they had come to the
house to see her die and instead had seen the instant transformation with
their own eyes. Father also believed in Jesus as his personal Savior."

RogerN