Mike Marlow wrote:
To be fair Michael, I am a person of faith, and I have heard similar claims
that try to state that "science" attempted to deny this or that. I
generally heard those things in churches. In reality, I seldom found real
science to be making those statements. I have seen common people like
ourselves, misquoting what science was saying, and trying to speak with
authority that they did not have, but I just did not hear science make those
proclamations. I have heard scientists of different disciplines propose
ideas that were contrary to what the Bible stated, but even those were
generally not as an outright denial or confrontation. There are some big
difference such as the age of the earth as viewed by science and as proposed
by young earth creationists. That's an entirely different matter. There
was some really bad science - or attempts at sounding scientific, being
thrown around by those folks 15 years ago.
I do not know what the "young earth" people claim - I don't follow them
either. I try to only follow what is written.
I on the other hand have heard scientists speak is great confidence of
things directly trying to contradict God's Word.
I have also heard the argument for years of how science really doesn't
try to disprove God's Word. It simply is not true. It is a cover, they
turn right around (in the next sentence usually) and do try.
But even in around about way if I, you, or they contradict what His Word
tells us - then we are trying.
Yet Thomas...
He was reprimanded for his disbelief. I would hope no one seeks to copy
things we know are incorrect.
Valid point Michael, but it does not address what was raised. The
corruption within the church at the time the Bible was being compliled is a
historical fact. Even believers cannot escape that. Even as a believer,
you cannot convince me that God ordained that the 66 books that we've been
handed are his complete set. Does not say that anywhere. My point - look
at what was said to you and don't look at it as an attack upon your faith.
The fact that many excluded books are seriously viewed by biblical scholars
as valid writings is evidence that man has gotten his hand into this thing.
None of that threatens the existence or the power of God.
I may not have been clear enough. Let me try again.
It doesn't matter what man did or didn't do. God controls the outcome.
If we believe in God, then we believe God is in control. If God is in
control then He used these men (even if they were trying to put their
own beliefs in - or squelch some other) - maybe I could say, He forced,
these men to the outcome He had planned.
And yes I will say the book we have today is all we need and God must
have intended it that way. I don't really know of any books considered
original that scholars claim should be in there - but then many/most of
the "scholars" are of those who prefer to "adjust" the Word to their own
desires anyway. But none of it changes what His Word tells us.
Let me just note that if God hadn't been in control, we wouldn't have
His Word today - because it convicts all those mentioned. If they were
trying to make their views look good they failed miserably because His
Word convicts their teachings and lifestyles.
I think it would help us humans greatly if we would just get a
perspective of how useless our attempt to control things is. We can't.
When we think we have - it is actually what was planned before, we just
think we were in control.
We are headed for the planned ending and nothing can change it.
Isaiah 10:15
Is the axe to boast itself over the one who chops with it?
Is the saw to exalt itself over the one who wields it?
That would be like a club wielding those who lift it,
Or like a rod lifting him who is not wood.
Denying the influence of man on what we currently hold as the Bible is
foolishness as well. Michael - I think you just need to step back from this
for a moment and come back at it a little less "charged".
Charged?
Not at all. In fact I have pushed myself to keep up with the thread
because once it degenerates into "you don't know" - "yes, I do", "no you
don't" it gets very tiring and I don't like it (the discussion becomes
unfruitful to the writers and the readers).
1 Corinthians 1:20-25
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of
this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? [21] For
since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come
to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the
message preached to save those who believe. [22] For indeed Jews ask
for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom; [23] but we preach Christ
crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness,
[24] but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ
the power of God and the wisdom of God. [25] Because the foolishness
of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than
men.
Probably the worst thing you could have done to present a convincing
position.
It is not about me. I don't mind being treated badly (or try not to). If
I know this to be God's Word then It is the convincing position to those
who might get something from this. I could have answered all these posts
simple by pasting verses in. His Word answers all these things
(literally - Instead of trying to use my own words, each point could be
answered from His Word).
Man has tried every method to solve their problems but one - and they
will never *willingly* try it. *He* (no one else) will force them to
though (remember - He will dash them as a pot, every knee will bow, etc.).
--
Michael Joel
parksfamily2 ------ ---- --- gmail ----- ----- com
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