On Feb 27, 1:40*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:27:01 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:





On Feb 26, 10:53*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 16:30:14 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Feb 26, 6:45*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 14:59:42 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Feb 26, 5:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 17:27:42 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"

wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...

Hi,
I always have Simpson 260 handy working on problem like this. Fluke is for
some other use.

It might not show up in the circuits in a house, but at work on some of the
480 volt 3 phase circuits I could show some of the same things with a
Simpson 260. *Start with the voltage on the highest scale and don't worry
about the voltage, just pay attention on how far up the meter goes, then
switch to the lower ranges in order. *On many of the 'phantom' voltages, the
pointer on the meter will not move very far up or down.

I have an assortment of Fluke and other meters I can use, but mostly grab
the 260 and the old analog Amprobe for current measurments.

I do not have one to check it out, but I understand that some of the newer
digital test meters have a low input resistance to help eliminate the
'phantom' voltage problem.

Just plug an incandescent light bulb into the circuit.

With a lamp plugged into the same GFCI, and turned on, I get the same
"oddball" readings at the GFCI.

With no load on 2 other circuits that I tested, I get the expected
readings of 0 between ground and neutral, 115V between hot and ground.

Fluke 75 multimeter.

Read my later reply, after you'd posted this information. *Essentially, you do
have an open ground, like the TLT was telling you. *Where it is in the next
question. *Use the TLT on another outlet in this circuit. *Testing both an
outlet before and one after will nail it down pretty well. *If the one after
is fine, then there is a good chance that the fault is within the GFCI itself.

Well, at least we've stopped talking about the meter and/or the
operator, which so many wanted to blame as the cause.

We? *Well, the reason the meter is reading what it is, is because of its high
impedance.

"Testing both an outlet before and one after will nail it down
pretty well."

Can't do that. There is no receptacle before the GFCI and everything
after it is ungrounded. The GFCI was installed so that 3 pronged
receptacles could be installed downstream. Obviously, they'll all read
"open ground".

I guess your only option is to shut off the circuit and pull the GFCI. *The
easiest thing to do is to measure the continuity of the outlet itself from the
ground hole contacts to the screw. *You can probably do that without removing
the outlet from the box. *You should also be able to inspect the connection
without pulling it. *Else, you're going to have to pull it.

BTW, since there are no grounds in this house, how did the GFCI get one? *You
do know that it really doesn't need one, in this case.

However, here's the latest:

I opened the junction box just before the GFCI and disconnected the
line in Romex feed, which had a ground wire. I then ran a suicide cord
from a known good receptacle in my shop to the Romex going to the
GFCI. The GFCI now reads correctly when using the tester and there are
no strange readings between the current carriers and ground. Same
meter, same operator. ;-)

Oops. *That means it's a broken wire - much work.

I traced the original Romex back to another junction box which houses
a light fixture over the utility tub. That box has 2 other wires
associated with it, one obviously being the feed but the other one
disappears up into a wall. I'll need to open that box to see if
there's a ground in there, otherwise I'll be pulling a new wire from
the panel to the GFCI's junction box.

Again, why bother?

Too late to play now, SWMBO is cooking and killing that circuit kills
the kitchen lights too.

Dinner here was ruined (priority interrupt from real estate agent).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In all honesty, I had already pulled the GFCI just to eliminate it as
a factor before I ran my suicide cord. I replaced it with a 3 prong
receptacle and disconnected the downstream devices so that there was
only the single 3 prong receptacle on the run.

When it still showed the open ground - even though there was a ground
wire attached - that's when I started tracing back and found the
prvious junction box. I'll be opening that tonight to look at the
ground situation.

As far as pulling a new grounded run from the panel to the junction
box, you asked "Why bother?"

Well, this is the last room in the house without 3 prong grounded
receptacles. That's why I started by adding the GFCI - so I could at
least install 3 prong receptacles downstream, mainly for the
convenience of having 3 prong receptacles available. Eventually, I
want to run grounded romex to all of the downstream receptacles, but
that is going to require moving some storage in the basement so it's
going to take some time.

My point is that, in your case, you don't need a ground to install 3-prong
receptacles. *The GFCI does the job. *The GFCI doesn't need a ground, either.
Everything should be good as it is. *Well, except the ungrounded 3-prong
outlets have to be marked "ungrounded".

Since the feed to the junction box has a ground wire, it appeared that
things would flow fairly smoothly in the forward direction from the
junction box on. Now that I'm showing an open ground, I have to go
backward and at a minimum find out why. I'm just not comfortable
knowing that a non-grounded ground wire is attached in the junction
box and at the GFCI. It'll gnaw at me until I fix it.

OK, there is that. *There's more than one reason I wouldn't buy a house with
no grounds. *;-)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Forgot to mention this:

It's not a house with no grounds, it's a house with *some* grounds.

Even though the older wires seem to be of the same cloth covered
vintage, some of them have grounds, some of them don't and in (at
least) this particular case, some have ground wires that aren't really
grounded.

Any new circuits that I've run in the past 20 or so years have all
been grounded. Except for some of the lighting circuits (two of which
include a shared neutral) this group is the last of the ungrounded
receptacles.