On 2/25/2012 11:07 AM, jk wrote:

Ok so EXACTLY where is the dividing line then,
between fair and unfair differentials?

That is a number to be determined.


I just said that CEO pay used to be 50 times what the pay for the
average worker was. Now it's 500 times or more. You tell me. What
happened so the CEO got such a raise and nobody else did when
productivity has risen 25 times what it was decades ago? The inequality
of what the people on top are benefiting is unbelievable.

And you were provided with examples, Georges were probably the best.

And what is that dividing line? Some where, between 1:1 and 100:1 you
say crosses the line between fair and unfair. Again I ask just WHERE.

Sorry but I don't have the perfect number to give you right off the top
of my head. I don't think there is one ratio you would use across the
board. To be fair I think you should go on a case by case basis. I can
tell you that the boss getting 500 times what the average worker gets is
out of line. They don't pay bosses like that in Japan and India. They
didn't pay them like that here either. But then now we have the boards
of all the big companies comprised of other CEOs from different companies.



As for what success people have just look up how many people leave an
estate of more than 100K when they die.
Truly irrelevant. Especially if you are not going to adjust that
number for both location and year. In fact not doing that adjustment
truly destroys one of your little arguments.

No it doesn't. My argument isn't an argument it's an observation of what
is. The reality is that over 90% of Americans don't have an "estate" to
leave on their demise. I just saw recently on CNN that the average net
worth of blacks in the U.S. is less than 6,000.

I am relaying the facts to you about how poor Americans are. Their home
is their most valuable asset. It is usually about all they own worth
anything. Only 2% of people are able to live well just on what assets
they have to retire on. Only 2% leave an estate. Now maybe I'm wrong and
it's 3% but my point is the same. Only a tiny percentage of people are
leaving any substantial money when they croak. If you don't think that's
true then do some research and tell us otherwise.



If you don't inflation adjust those numbers, I think you will find
that a LOT more people leave 100K+ estates than did in say 1950. But
what does that mean, NOTHING, since you can't buy a load of bread for
what you paid for one in 1950.

Look, most people would not call 100K an estate. Most people leave
nothing or close to it. I'm sure that people left even less in 1950.
That doesn't change the fact that so many Americans have so little.



If you are successful then you
should have a lot of money left when you die.
Arguable. There are lots of ways to transfer wealth that don't do
that.

We aren't talking about tricky ways to hide wealth or divest it before
death. I'm saying if you made a lot of money you will most likely have
an estate to leave your kids.

Very few people leave an
estate worth anything. If they did so well in life how come so many have
so little to show for it?


Good advisors and tax people is what does it for some.

Having a good adviser means that on your demise there is nothing to show
for it? I don't think so. I think it's the opposite. With good advice
and tax planners you should have a lot to show for it.



I don't see why you SHOULD leave an estate.

They have children they care about? If you aren't going to leave your
estate to them then who? Or what, just spend it up frivolously in your
eighties or nineties?



A house is usually about all most people have.

And if they held on to it, rather than trying to float at the top of a
housing bubble, that is likely to exceed your 100K number.


Do you have any idea what the average price of a house is in America?
It's like mid 150K and most people have a mortgage on them. So you can
see most people's homes don't have all that much equity in them to leave
when they die. My figure came from the National Association of Realtors.

Did I tell you I used to be a real estate agent?

Hawke