On 2/16/2012 7:34 PM, George Plimpton wrote:

You need to reread your post and see if you can say it in a way that
people can actually understand what you're talking about.

Despite some missing punctuation and being a bit of a run-on sentence,
what he wrote is perfectly intelligible to normal people. What he
clearly is saying - and he is right, of course - is that unfairness is
when leeches are enabled to suck value out of those who produce the
value, giving nothing in return.

Your problem is that you see things so simply when they are not. To
begin, with what makes you think that I think it is fair for what you
call leeches to take things from people who work for them and do nothing
in return? I've never though that, ever. I don't think it's fair to just
take things from people who have earned them fair and square. There
really is such a thing as stealing. But you take it to extremes in what
you call stealing. I keep it in perspective.


You blabber all the time about successful people being dependent on
"society" for their success. What does some criminal black crack whore
welfare chiseler with five children from five different men contribute
to "society", such that I owe her anything? What does she give to
"society" in return for the largesse that you send federal agents to
take out of my pocket to give to her?

Same here, you mistakenly believe that I think some criminal taking
advantage of everything and everybody just for her own selfish needs is
acceptable. It's not. You don't think I know what a scum bag is, whether
it's a man or woman? I'm here to tell you I sure do. Probably know
better than you. I have a lot of experience in dealing with people on
the bottom end of society. Many of them are worthless. But they are
American citizens, which is something you have totally forgotten, so
they do have some rights, which you would likely take away from them.


Your notions about "society" are wrong - 100% wrong.

My notions are in the mainstream of thinking as far as what American
society is. Yours are way out on the fringe. That being the case, of
course you would see the middle of the road as being wrong. After all,
you think the fringe view is right. You and a handful of others.

I owe no money or
anything else of economic value to "society" - in fact, I owe nothing to
"society" at all, because "society" is not an entity.

See, that's the oddball thinking that nobody else believes except for a
handful of strange thinking people. Almost nobody thinks that way. Most
normal people accept they are members of a society that is beneficial to
them and they accept that they are obliged to contribute to because they
see that they actually get quite a lot by being a part of society.
Libertarians don't see things that way but they are a very small segment
of society, which they belong to even though they would rather not, or
so they say. The thing is the minute you lost all the things you get
from society you would want them back. First off, with out society
somebody would kill you and take everything you have.


What I owe my
fellow citizens - individual persons - is my agreement and
follow-through not to interfere with them in their peaceful conduct of
their lives. That is all I or anyone else owes.

Except that if you are an American you don't get to make the rules like
that. If you are going to be an American you have to take it or leave
it. You don't get to just pick and choose. You want to live here? Then
you go along with what society says. If not you will be assessed a
penalty, and you won't like the price either. So join us and play by our
rules or get out. You don't make the rules here. That's society that
says that's how it's going to be.

Hawke