On Feb 11, 9:49*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
"Robert Macy" wrote in message

...
On Feb 11, 4:06 am, "Robert Green" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

stuff snipped







So you save 100 children's lives a year with the new regulations and
give
birth to 10,000 felons. What a choice. Let me think...

Talk about setting up a straw man -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

your last two lines should be used in the dictionary as a near perfect
example of setting up a consequence that's not true in order to disprove a
point that clearly IS true.

Did YOU care for a farm animal or drive a combine when your were a kid?
Are
YOU a felon? Neither are the millions upon millions of kids that didn't
grow up on farms. Congratulations for creating a uniquely specious
argument. We'll call it "HeyBub's 10,000 Felons for Want of a Cow" rule..

Next case.

--
Bobby G.

It is interesting to note that constantly being mentioned as the cause
of an accident is "lack of training" much more frequently than the
fact that a child is DOING the task. The problem appears to be that
with youth and inexperience one does not have the ability to 'self-
train', concluding then that a child is incapable of safely performing
a task. NOT!

I was running a huge turret lathe at age 14 at Brooklyn Tech. HS. *But I
didn't operate it before I got serious training on the lathe AND was able to
pass a written safety test. *Based on the some of the accidental deaths I've
been reading about, lots of kids are given control of dangerous gear without
proper training.

The number of deaths and injuries of kids using adult-sized ATV's alone is
proof to me that too many parents don't provide the common sense training
that kids need to successfully operate dangerous equipment. *The pre-teen
German kids that learned how to use anti-tank guns and operate AA batteries
in WWII is proof that kids can do amazing, adult things, especially if
properly trained. *That's the rub. *Do they get that training in time to
prevent death or injury to themselves or others? *It seems that far too many
don't get good safety training.

Lots of states make driver's ed course mandatory if kids want to get
licenses at an early age. *That's done not just to create a meddling
bureacracy but out of the realization that parents that drive like idiots
(and I see a dozen every day on the roads around here) probably won't be
able to train their kids to be better drivers than they are.

Regarding safety education, I am very happy, and lucky, that my father
ALWAYS told me to "picture what can go wrong" Example, starting with
simple tasks like using an axe: miss your swing, hit your leg,
position your limbs out of harm's way; or, grinding wheel: things fly
off it.you can get 'grabbed, wedged, pinched' by it, loose things
pulled into it, and worst, the wheel could shatter throwing pieces.

I think you're luckier than most to have a father that appreciated how
dangerous even non-power tools can be. *In our shop classes at BTHS there
was extensive safety training and someone was always walking the shop floor
as safety monitor. *They walked around waiting to find someone doing
something unsafe so that they could tag them for a safety violation and that
violator would become the next safety monitor. *That system worked out
exceptionally well. *We had posted lists of rules (all ties tucked in or
removed, all rings and watches stowed, all workplaces regularly cleared of
debris, etc.) and good enforcement of them. *Unfortunately I think in many
situations, the more informal, the less likely kids are going to get
thorough and meaningful safety instruction.

The skeet range I use has a wonderful and impressive display board that
consists of ruputured and exploded shotgun barrels that happened when (time
and time again) shooters got the barrel filled with mud and then fired them.
Hardened steel shredded to ribbons. *Even with that display board, people
still explode their shotgun barrels after plugging them accidentally with
mud.

Thus, I learned to NEVER stand in the plane of a turning wheel, keep
my clothes away, and to make certain fingers can't get caught and
wedged by a turning wheel. He taught me a very useful, transferrable
form of safety education, useable everywhere. He never said, don't
stand here, don't do such and such - a truly limited in value rote
form of safety education.

I am concerned, based on the accidents that have killed or maimed child farm
workers, that their parents have been too informal about safety training.

http://www.wwgh.com/search/webpages/...farm.htm*says:
RURAL DEATHS AND INJURIES

* a.. Each year, approximately 70 children ages 14 and under die from
injuries occurring on a farm.
* b.. An estimated 150,000 children suffer a preventable injury associated
with production agriculture each year.Although fatal farm-related injuries
among children have declined in recent years, the non-fatal farm-related
injury rate has increased.
* c.. In 1998, more than 14,000 children ages 14 and under were treated in
emergency rooms for equestrian-related injuries.Nearly 40 percent of
equestrian injuries result in hospitalization.Head injury is the most common
cause of equestrian-related death and serious injury.
* d.. In 1998, at least 43 children ages 14 and under died from All Terrain
Vehicle (ATV)-related injuries.
* e.. In 1998, more than 23,500 children ages 14 and under were treated in
emergency rooms for ATV-related injuries and nearly 800 children were
treated for snowmobile-related injuries.
As a result of this education, and in spite of doing some of the most
stupid activities - flame throwers, home-
made gunpowder, zip guns, handgun silencers, etc, etc I still have all
fingers and toes, and sight and hearing intact.

Me too. *But I know that some of that is just plain old good luck. *There
have been plenty of times where I came very close to punching my ticket. *I
remember one 4th of July where I lit an M-80, pulled my arm back to throw it
and had it explode between my thumb and forefinger inches from my ear.
Having what sounds like a church gong going off in my head for a week and a
thumb swolled to the size of a small banana really taught me a lot about
fireworks safety.

Still, a year or two later I lit an "aerial report" off in the street with a
punk, withdrew to a safe distance, heard the mortar report that launched the
explosive round, heard a loud DING as the payload hit a street lamp and
bounced back down to explode just a foot or two away from my. *After that, I
began to check for overhead objects.

My buddy used to hold Roman candles in his hand after lighting them until
one day the last flare made a dull thud and exited the rear of the tube and
shot down his shirt sleeve into his shirt. *That was the last Roman candle
he ever lit while holding it. *You never heard such screaming. *Left one
hell of a scar.

Mental faculties are still being questioned by spouse

Always. *(-:

--
Bobby G.

Exploding gun barrel, or backfire can happen to the best. One year in
the Olympics the shooter's gun backfired and blinded him! Really a
terrible accident. Wasn't covered much on the news, though.