On Jan 15, 3:34*pm, RBM wrote:
On 1/15/2012 3:01 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:









On Jan 15, 2:25 pm, *wrote:
On 1/15/2012 2:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

* *wrote in message
....

But that's my point. "Hopefully" seems like a risky thing to base the
wiring on. It was obvious that prior work was not compliant, so why
would the electrician simply assume that the correct wire sizes were
.used?

I'd be concerned with the possibilty that, let's say, 12g was used at
the panel but is connected to 14g in a nearby junction box or
something like that.

If it was a neat installation I'd have more confidence, but this panel
was such a mess, with obvious violations, that I'd have to suspect
violations outside the box.

I guess my main concern was the broadcasting of the practice as if the
wire size is all you ever have to be concerned with. It just struck me
as a dangerous assumption, especially in the sloppy conditions in
which the assumption was made.

It all boiles down to how much time and money is to be spent. *The breaker
box can be changed in a few hours. *To check out the whole house may take a
day or two. *The job description was to change the box, not check out all
the wiring in the house.

It would be up to the home owner to determin if all the wiring should be
checked out at a much larger cost, after finding a code violation or two
with the instalation.

That's it in a nutshell. The service is one job. If, while doing the
service the electrician has reason to suspect rube wiring in other areas
of the house, he'll bring his suspicions to the home owner, with
suggestions for how to proceed.

RBM:

I'm not a lawyer nor a licensed electrician, so this is are legitimate
(i.e. not a smart ass) questions. I always respect your answers
related to electrical questions, so...

If you had reason to suspect rube wiring based on what you saw at the
panel, would you...

1 - Mention it to the homeowner
2 - Accept his choice not to address your suspicions
3 - Connect the wires based on size
4 - Sleep comfortably even knowing that your suspicions were not
addressed?

If indeed there was rube wiring elsewhere, and a problem occurred e.g.
at that 12g to 14g junction later on, could the electrician be held
liable if he simply matched wire size to breaker size at the panel?
Isn't there some deeper level of responsibility, as in perhaps
refusing to take the panel replacement job, if the electrician has
reason to believe other parts of the system are unsafe?

Very often people have finished basements that were never filed for or
inspected. When they go to sell the house, the non compliant area pops
up, and the town requires them to get a certificate of occupancy. *In
order to get a C/O from the town, they need an electrical certificate.
(in my area), to get this, I as a licensed electrician, have to hire a
certified electrical inspection agency to do the inspection. The walls
are closed. You can only determine so much, so they issue a "closed
wall" inspection or "electrical survey". As part of the form, it
specifies that the inspection is, "to the best of our knowledge" and
terms like we're not liable for things unseen, etc, etc.

When someone hires us to do a service,or any other job, we price that
job alone. We absolutely bring anything unseemly or dangerous to the
attention of the customer, with recommendations for repairing or
replacing, as a separate job
.
When we do a service. We have that work inspected and provide a
certificate of compliance, as part of the job. If there was some wiring
problem downstream of the electrical service, it would still exist, but
wouldn't have anything to do with the work we did, nor would we have any
way to know

Makes sense...Thanks!