On 11/30/2011 8:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:09:41 -0800, Hawke
wrote:

On 11/28/2011 10:34 AM, wrote:
On Nov 28, 12:11 am, wrote:

Well I call that illogical. If the biggest companies don't pay very high
rates it's logical to think none of the other ones do either. But I know
from numerous sources that the truth is the U.S. has high corporate tax
rates on the books but in reality the U.S. is near the bottom of real
tax rates, that's the rate they actually pay. Look it up if you don't
know that is true.


No it is not logical to believe that international companies pay the
same rate as small local companies.

Okay, then what is logical? That if the largest companies don't pay high
taxes then, what? Small companies don't either? Which is what I say. Or
small companies pay higher taxes? What follows logically if you know
that if a lot of the big companies don't pay high taxes then what is the
logical conclusion from that?


I suggest that most companies, and particularly the larger ones, pay
exactly as much tax as they are required to. The difference is that
they employ tax experts that structure the business in such a manner
so to take advantage of every bit of the federal tax regulations.

Yeah, I would agree with that. Big companies have whole sections that do
nothing but handle tax issues, so you know they will abide by the law,
but they will also find every legal way to pay only what they absolutely
have to.

Along with being big comes complexity too. Your corner gas station or
hamburger joint is pretty simple when it comes to figuring their taxes.
Depending on the kind of business some of them aren't able to find as
many loopholes as others can and have to pay a higher rate. It's all
across the board what everyone pays. The system could definitely use
some changes. Like with individuals, I would like to see the small
companies pay a lower rate than the big ones. I doubt it'll happen though.




However this is not a sin. I know individuals who do the same thing
(usually the wealthier ones) and structure their finances in such a
manner as to comply strictly with the US tax code.

You need money to take advantage of the tax code. But I don't see any
way to be critical of any company or person who is abiding by the
current law. If it isn't fair the blame is on the government for not
applying taxes in a fair way.



Investment in municipal bonds, for example, city, town or larger,
usually comes with a reduced tax burden - an incentive to invest in
your town or city. Many people invest in these securities to lower
their tax liability.

That's true but along with that lower tax rate comes a low return on
investment, usually 4% or less. With 2% inflation per year you are
barely making anything on those investments. So you get one benefit but
you give up another. People in high tax brackets benefit from this but
not a lot of others.




Of course you can apply punitive corporate taxes but the big companies
can equally well move parts of their business to more advantageous
areas. Ford has started building a factory in Thailand that they
stated would supply most of their world wide requirement for pickup
trucks...

Just what you would expect from a transnational corporation that has no
loyalty to any nation. You build where you can get labor that is as
close to slavery as possible, and environmental concern is virtually non
existent. That makes good business sense.



It may be a good idea to investigate whether high corporate taxes are
a deciding factor for a company to move their operations, and
employment, overseas.


It's costs in general. Maybe it's labor, maybe it's taxes, maybe it's
corruption, maybe it's crime, and maybe it's something else. But it
costs more to make things in some places than others. For a business
that has only one worry and that is making profits it goes where it can
build it's products the cheapest.

For a government that represents the interests of its people, it's
interest is a lot different from that of a corporation. The government
ostensibly has the welfare of the citizens as its top priority. So it's
easy to see that the goals of government and of business are mutually
exclusive. Any country that allows business to do what is best for it
and not for it's citizens doesn't deserve to stay in power. Because the
minute a country is run to benefit corporations instead of citizens it's
the citizens who are going to see their lives take a sharp turn for the
worst.

Just look at us. Our corporations have done remarkably well in the last
two years but the average citizen has seen his lot decline drastically.
For instance, on the radio yesterday I heard a pilot for American
Airlines say that his pay was the same now as it was in 1992. With
inflation that means it's really a lot less. That's typical of what has
happened to most Americans; meanwhile "our" corporations continue making
record profits.

Hawke