"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 21:52:47 -0500, "Robert Green"

wrote:
I was a union member for a few years. It got me fair pay for a fair
day's
work and triple time when I worked Sundays and holidays, which I did
quite
often. I think this "unions have destroyed America" malarkey is just
that.
Unions BUILT American, and they, like the Federal government and any
other
complex systems need maintenance and adjustment from time to time.
Capital
and labor are at somewhat natural odds with each other and so that
process
needs refereeing. Unions even the playing field between the two.

It's so sad that so few people seem to remember what working conditions
were
like 100 years ago before unions. People were locked into dangerous
workplaces with the exits barred and got burned alive (Triangle
Shirtwaist
Fire) when a fire started. Regulations and unions didn't arise in a
vacuum,
they arose because of the constant abuses of businessmen who wouldn't
think
twice about risking a worker's health to make a dollar.

If it was 1930, I'd probably be a union organizer or otherwise a union
official. They did a lot of good for the working man.

Agreed. Unions, governments and businesses are all complex systems and as
such, they break down, they go haywire, they become obsolete and need
upgrading, etc. That's *supposed* to be what Congress is about -
maintaining, at least, some level of functionality and purpose in
government.

In 1970 though, I saw some unions that were taking money from members
and giving them nothing in return.

I knew that, but somehow, it's just all crystalized. That's the problem
with *all* of our systems. They are taking money from someone to give to
someone else. (-:

I was part of the negotiating with
one of the unions and it was sad the way they exploited the workers
for dues and health and welfare contributions.

Don't disagree. Power corrupts. It's why politicians take huge chunks of
money in the open that they used to demand under the table. It's why CEOs
can get away with $20M compensation packages (thank you, Kurt - I no longer
write "salary") and why unions ended up being run by guys with diamond
pinkie rings. I did see an interesting item one. It claimed that Teamster
investments never lost a dime until Jimmy Hoffa was booted out. The Federal
Trustees that stepped in basically eviscerated the pension funds with bad
investments.

Recently, unions have started to see they have to make drastic
changes. They can't keep on taking and make demands for more. We're
all supposed to be in this together.

I think there's an important lesson here. Movements like the labor movement
that did a lot of good for a lot of people eventually get crusty like old
galvanized pipes running hard water with slow leaks. Sometimes they are
best rebuilt from the ground up. There's no doubt that too many people were
promised too many benefits without any planning for how they would be paid
for. The focus of that fight will doubtless be the municipal and county
worker unions that secured those concessions without securing financing.

My J-prof, one of the two smartest people I ever met, had two sayings that
are spot on. One is that "the pendulum swings" - no matter how bad things
are looking for one side or the other, all sorts of social mechanisms exist
to pull that pendulum back. Gun control and abortion are examples of how it
swings.

His other favorite saying was to "follow the money." I don't think enough
journalists or even investigators live by that rule. I don't believe there
are many journalists left that can do it in the modern age because finances
are so complex. I'd still like to know who profited most from the real
estate bubble because you can bet they're cooking up another bubble to cash
in on.

--
Bobby G.