On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 11:18:35 -0800 (PST), Evan
wrote:

On Nov 10, 12:05Â*pm, bob haller wrote:
On Nov 10, 11:44Â*am, Evan wrote:



On Nov 9, 7:32Â*am, bob haller wrote:

On Nov 8, 7:31Â*pm, Evan wrote:

On Nov 8, 2:48Â*pm, bob haller wrote:

Chances are replacing the fuse box with a circuit breaker could reduce
your home owners insurance policy markedly. Because fuses are
outdated, insurance companies look at a house with a fuse box and see
an electrical fire waiting to happen. Right there, your rates go up,
and homeowners have a big incentive to toss out the fuse box.

The one situation that will really leave you with little in the way of
options is if the wiring in your home is so old as to be so dangerous
that no insurance company will touch it with a 20 foot pole. In the
earliest days of electrical wiring, bare conductor was looped around
insulating knobs hammered into beams. This configuration, known as
knob-and-tube wiring, was so unsafe it was rapidly replaced by wires
sheathed in metal and cellulose; and yet there are still homes in the
oldest parts of Washington DC and its suburbs where electricians may
find it still in use today. If in the process of buying a home, a home
inspector finds that knob-and-tube wiring, it is unlikely you will be
able to find an insurance company willing to provide coverage for the
house

Umm... Â*Bob, I hate to rain on your parade, but fuses are actually
much safer as overcurrent devices than circuit breakers, as fuses
can not fail in the "circuit closed" position like circuit breakers
tend
to do...

Fuses are frequently used down stream of a circuit breaker in a panel
to provide the protection to the DEVICE being used rather than to
protect the wiring like a circuit breaker...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

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For many years I spent a lot of time at the westinghouse circuit
breaker plant in beaver pa.

a fascinating place, i became a kinda employee or one of the guys. I
was there for tests that rocked the building they made everything from
high voltage distribution stuff to home main breakers.

heck they offered me a job too, no interview needed. they said we know
you your hired, just drop application at reception, when do you want
to start? i declined the offer, which turned out a good decision, 2
years later they had massive layoffs, everyone with less than 20 years
was let go

breakers are all designed to fail trip early, that is they become more
sensitive over time.....

if you have a breaker that trips a lot just try replacing it, the
circuit may be fine, the breaker is likely at fault.

LOL...

Bob, a breaker which is exposed to continuous (tiny) overcurrent
situations is a lot more likely to simply deform inside and fail in
the circuit CLOSED position...

Especially the older the breaker gets and even more likely in
adverse environmental conditions... Â*(High Humidity, High Heat)

I take it you have never seen the results of failed circuit breakers
in the form of melty/welded/destroyed bus bars inside a breaker
panel... Â*Those sort of situations are just as likely to cause a
fire as an improperly sized fuse... Â*That is why thermographic
surveys of circuit breaker panels under load are done in larger
buildings to assess the heat conditions present in the panels
and determine when they should be replaced or upgraded...

Fuses blow out and won't allow an unskilled/incompetent person
to keep resetting them even when an overload condition is still
present in the circuit until the problem has been resolved...
People stop trying to replace fuses and call an electrician after
the 2nd blows out immediately after screwing it in...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

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as i statred before breakers are designed to fail, by tripping at
lower currents.......

if many truly never tripped the lawsuits would put the company out of
business ,,,,,, oh wait that already happened to FPE

@Bob:

Really ?

Most any product I have ever purchased must be used PROPERLY
for any sort of liability to attach to the manufacturer...

A circuit breaker being used under a tiny amount of overload
constantly
is not being used properly

Correct. A branch circuit can not be DESIGNED to run at more than 80%
of the protection device rating, by code.
(think improperly tightened electrical
connections or a high resistance short to ground) because the wiring
does not conform to "best practices" within the trade and has
not been maintained properly...

You can't blame the manufacturer for something being used outside
of its tested limits or that was inaccurately selected or installed by
the homeowner... All of the liability rests with the homeowner in
that situation...

~~ Evan