On Nov 1, 1:25*pm, Hawke wrote:


I would point out that the M in RCM stands for metalworking, and that is
a trade. While this is a recreational group that doesn't mean there are
not metalworking and related trades people here. Quite a few I would
bet. So you can't say definitively that my assumption of the percentage
of college graduates in the group is wrong. If you take any
representation you want; the people here represent the general public,
the people here represent a large proportion of tradespeople, the people
here represent a recreational group, or just about any other you want to
use the statistics still support the idea that by a wide margin that
most people in this group are not people with college degrees.


From a very old post.


Now that I actually have sort of figured out how to create a
newsgroup, I
went looking for the original Charter for this group. Turns out this
particular newsgroup was started in 1992 by a guy named Jim
Kirkpatrick at
the University of Wyoming. To my knowledge, Jim is no longer actively
posting to the group, though the FAQ still resides on the University
of
Wyoming system.

Wherever you are, Jim, thanks.

Here's the official original charter for the group.

Charter
-------

Proposed Charter -- REC.CRAFTS.METALWORKING

The USENET newsgroup, rec.crafts.metalworking, is a newsgroup which
discusses
various aspects of working with metal, such as (but not limited to):

machining, as on a lathe, milling machine, grinder, etc.;

numerical control of such machines;

welding, whether by gas, arc, mig, tig, thermite, or other methods;

casting various metals by various methods;

hardening/tempering various metals;

blacksmithing/forging;

spinning and hammer work;

sheet metal work;

jewelry-making;

purchasing and/or reconditioning metalworking tools and machinery;

interesting projects;

books on metal technologies and history;

Example areas of interest:

knife/sword making;

automotive repair;

steam engine (model/scale, though full-sized discussions are
welcome!);

art work, such as bronze castings and sculptures;

gunsmithing;

toolmaking, such as for woodworking, further metalworking, etc.;

While the bulk of the discussion will probably be directed towards
small-scale "home" shops, industrial/production discussions are also
quite welcome.

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Graham | Metalworker by trade
mikegraham at sprint dot ca | Weld to live, like to weld.
Caledon, Ontario, Canada | Weird by nature
http://metalmangler.homepage.com
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"By Fire and Iron doth he make Bread."


Still a mistake in how to apply statistics. The group does not
represent the general public. As just one example, this newsgroup is
almost all male. The general public is not.

If it
was an engineering group I'd expect most people would have college
degrees. Assuming most people here are metal working related workers I
think it's a fair assumption that most people in this group don't have
degrees. 75% of the public has no college degree. If we are
representative of that population then most people here don't have a
degree. If we are representative of metalworkers in general then you
would expect that population to be less well educated than the general
public.

Ah but we are not representative of metalworkers in general. *We are a
bunch of people who have a hobby of metalworking and like to discuss
metalworking. *And I do not know where you get the idea that
machinists are less educated that the general public.

Personal experience for one and the fact that machinists are
tradespeople and they are not as highly educated as the general public
is. I spent many years going to college and that goes back to the 1970s.
I never ran into anyone there who was a machinist. If you were a
professional machinist what college degree would you pursue? I mean if
you had a profession why would you be in college unless you wanted out
of it and into something else?

My belief is that machinists are more educated than the general
public. You yourself have said you do not post about metalworking
because you do not know much about metalworking. And you probably did
not meet any machinists because very few would be taking Political
Science classes. Did you take many computer courses? If you had you
might have run across machinists learning CNC. That is where the
machinists would be found trying to keep up with the state of the art
in computer control.



It really does not bother me that you express opinions, whatever they
are. *I do try to point out to you where you make logical errors.
Such as the one above on statistics.

To make a charge that I've made a statistical error you have to prove
it. But you don't have a clue how many people here have college degrees.
You just made a guess. OTOH, I estimated based on education level
statistics how many people here should have a college education. If you
think I am wrong then I say show me that more than 50% of the people
here have a degree in something.

The error you made was assuming that the folks that post in RCM are
representative of the general public. *But they are not. *Just the
fact that they post in a newsgroup means they are different from the
general public.

I would question your assumptions here. First off, I don't see why
people in RCM are not representative of the general public. If so, in
what way, and where is your proof? Second, in what way are people that
post to a newsgroup different from the public? How do you know that?


One the people in RCM are nearly all men unlike the general
population. Two most of them are computer literate, unlike a lot of
the general population. Three they are interested in metalworking.
Four a significant percentage are retired.


I do not have to prove how many people here have college degrees to
know you made an error, *You made an error you in your initial
assumption. *That is the statistical error you made.

To prove me wrong all you have to do is prove that more than 25% of the
people in RCM have college degrees. You don't know my assumption is
wrong. You have no proof that it's wrong. You think it is but you don't
have any proof. So you can't say truthfully that my assumption is wrong
unless you can prove it first. But you don't have any way to do that.


Not the way things work. You are the one contending that the people
that post in RCM are representative of the general public. -And using
that in an argument. So the burden of proof is up to you.


So did you ever take any courses in statistics? A quick look at CSU
Chico did not find any requirement to take either statistics or
econmics.


Dan

I guess that explains it. You aren't editing things here though. You are
having a casual conversation that is on another level. It's informal.
Anything goes.

Anything goes. *I guess that includes bad logic, false statements,
lies, etc. *That may apply to you, but I try to be rational even in
informal conversations.

Yep, all of that. But, like you, I don't apply those things to myself
either. That doesn't mean most people here don't lie, make false
statements, or use faulty logic. I doubt any of them will admit to it
either.

Hawke