On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 16:12:08 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On Oct 29, 11:44Â*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:45:27 -0700 (PDT), Evan



wrote:
On Oct 29, 9:32Â*pm, wrote:
I'm thinking mabee it's time to replace my old fuse panel with a
breaker panel.
Â*Problem is, the new panels are not even a close match to the old
panel. The existing panel is surface mounted with the main switch/fuse
on the left, with the power feed coming in from the back in the lower
corner. All the "load" wires come in the top. They come out through
the plywood service board and then enter thepanel within inches. This
does not allow much flexibility.

The closest I've found so far is a Schnieder StabLok panel, but I
would need to mount it sideways. No problem with the main breaker as
it would be oriented on up, as required by code. The feed would need
to come in through an elbow through the bottom of the box instead of
the back as the new panel is significantly smaller.
Â*I can make all this work - but then half of the load breakers are
upside-down. Don't know if that is an issue here in Canada - aparently
it is not allowed in the USA. I guess I could always restrict myself
to half capacity (use a 40 circuit panel as a 20)

The only problem I can forsee is some know-it-all home inspector
seeing the FPE on the panel and demanding a future buyer replace the
dang thing because early FPE StabLok breakers got a REAL bad name in
the USA (rightly or wrongly). We will likely be selling in the next 5
years or so (which is the MAJOR reason I'm even thinking about
replacing the panel in the firstr place.

It is clear that this project is beyond your skill level...

Au contraire my friend



First you are looking for a panel with an identical layout to the
one you have installed now... Â*-1...

Second you had not thought at all about removing your present
fuse box guts and using it as a junction box, extending all of
the existing wires through conduits to a new circuit breaker
panel installed next to the existing one, then obtaining a piece
of sheet metal of the proper thickness to correctly cover
the old fuse box...

Â*Not an option Not enough space, and besides that it would look like
heck as well. Would sure turn off any future buyer.

Then there is no fusing around with any of the old wiring
removing them from the old panel and installing them into
the new one, old wires sometimes lose their flexibility and
it would really suck to have to trace circuits back and
install new home runs or have to work with many junction boxes
out and away from the panel...

Â*Not a chance. The wire is in VERY good condition. And I've done a LOT
of this work in the past. Used to work wit my dad, who was an
electrician, and actually wired this house back in the early
seventies.Call an electrician to do this for you...

~~ Evan

Â*Even if I decided to get an electrician to do the job I am the one
choosing what goes in and what it is going to look like when it is
done. I know there are lots of ways this can be done that would be FAR
less than optimal. Anything less tha RIGHT, it will stay the way it is
- because there is nothing WRONG with it the way it is. In 30 years
the only fuses I've had to replace have been from jamming the table
saw or starting the compressor when it was too cold and stiff.

ANd it DOES still have 2 spare circuits available.

Â*I do know, however, that any half-assed home inspector hired by a
future buyer would flag the fused panel. And I've never met a home
inspector that was anything better than half-assed - period. They pick
on small unimportant stuff and miss the big expensive important stuff.

"you don't want this house, there's no dish washer, and the switch
plate in the bathroom is cracked" and they don't catch the bad grading
that causes water to flood into window wells in heavy rain, or the
blistered cast iron drain stack, or even the extention cords, or even
telephone wire, used to wire the rec room. Went through that before we
bought this place 30 years ago without an inspection. I checked this
place myself and Â*no problems I wasn't aware of. I knew the windows
were cheap contractor windows that would eventually need replacing,
along with the roof - I replaced the roof 7 years later, and the
windows starting after 15 years, finishing this year.

You are concerned about it "looking like heck" when you are trying
to find the one ideal panel which would be a drop in replacement, oh
and you are concerned about the name on the new panel...

WOW...

h what everyone says about FPE on this list mabee I should be
concerned with the name on the panel???
And if I was buying the house I would want the panel to look like it
was professionally installed, not patched together by someone who
didn't care

Grow up... Seriously... Either do it right or leave it alone...

Which is EXACTLY what I am intending to do. If I can't do it right it
will stay the way it is - which is, as far as I'm concerned, perfectly
OK. I'll just stay with the insurance company I've been with for over
50 years, even if it costs me more than several other companies would
charge. The insurance company wants an inspection. If I'm paying for
an inspection I'll have the panel inspected at the same time.
Retirement is coming up, and a move to a bungalow where we will be
able to spend the rest of our lives without having to negotiate stairs
every day - or we'd stay in this house. So saleability is an issue we
want to plan ahead for.
Your problem was with where your feeder cable was running,
and that is one of the easier things to replace as usually the
meter can and the panel aren't all that far away from each other...
Real close - but would require movong the meter - which means
repairing siding - which is NOT on the agenda. The meter box connects
via conduit to the panel- straight through the wall - so moving
anything there is not a simple matter. The panel location is not easy
to change either - without opening up the wall and re-routing the
wires. Not going to happen.

So that is one problem that seems to be driving your decision
eliminated... As to the other, the wires all coming in at the top,
another person suggested here that you install a trough and then
use sections of conduit to feed the circuits into the new panel...
You could do that if you wanted or use the old panel as the
junction box as I suggested, (oh but wait you said it was too
close to the window or some foolishness, hmmm, perhaps the
new panel could go on the other side of the window -- why not
show us a picture of the area so that more information is
available to make the recommendation) which is an acceptable
option if you replace the cover plate with one which has no
openings in it (some inspectors are good with a screw fixing
the door in place and others want a solid piece metal cover plate)
A huge combination panel used for a junction box, then run wires from
it across a 42 inch window to a new panel, which would be in the way
of just about everything else???? You have GOT to be kidding. Not to
mention running the power feed across that window as well. Surface
mounted condouit - in a finished area.

Look - what do you not understand about it can NOT be relocated. It
is in finished space. There is NO unimpeded location where it can be
moved to without serious re-work. It is 10 inches from a window, all
the wires come down inside the wall from above and enter the top of
the existing panel. The power feed comes through the wall from the
meter in conduit into the back of the bottom of the side mounted main
switch The ONLY solution that has been suggested so far that could
work is a roughly 24 inch trough or raceway with the panel installed
below and joined by conduit. I am investigating that possibility
tomorrow.

If the raceway can be tight against the panel it can be made to work
quite easily 2 1/2" is too small, and 4X4 is too large - have not
found 4X3 or 4X3 1/2 which would be a perfect fit - I could have a
custom trough fabricated - otherwize I need to move the panel down six
inches - which will put the panel too close to the edge of the
existing panel mounting board. I could also cut out the existing
plywood panel to re-locate where the load wires come through the wall,
mounting a new service board over top of the old one large enough to
give enough edge clearance - and requiring replacing the conduit
coming throught he wall because it will now be too short. Or I could
cut the old plywood panel out of the wall and replace it with a fresh
peice, with all the holes relocated to bring the wires out where they
will work.

I would also upgrade to 200 amp service at this point in time,
as a different respondent told you your choices are not going to
be the same as the new buyer of your house when it sells...
Plug-in hybrid cars are becoming more popular, and while the
capability to recharge overnight (10-12 hours) using a standard
15 amp, 120 volt cord is nice and all, a lot of people who buy
plug-in hybrid cars want to be able to recharge their cars more
quickly and that requires a 240 volt outlet using as much
amperage as a 40 amp electric stove..

Look IDIOT. I charged my own ALL ELECTRIC car from this service for 2
years and never blew a fuse. And if the new owner wants to change it
up to 200 amps it is a VERY SIMPLE situation of changing the breaker
in the panel and the meter base and 3 feet of wire. - and going to a
200 amp circuit does not solve ANY of the issues I am concerned with
right now. If I put in a 100 amp or a 400 amp panel doesn't make any
difference.

But it is your choice, your money and your hard luck if your
house ends up interesting yuppie/hippie types and you have
to fix a whole punch list of things really quickly (thus costing
more money for the time pressure) versus making your upgrades
on your own time table...

If they demand a 200 amp service the upgrade is a 1 hour job in the
house, possible change to the meter box outside and POSSIBLY a trench
to the street for the utility to upgrade - but I'm told the feeds are
ALL 200 amp in the subdivision.

~~ Evan
And I didn't ask for advice about what I should be doing - only how
to accomplish it.

Only Pete has given any constructive and worth-while input - All you
can do is tell a guy likely old enough to be your dad to "grow up" and
do a half-assed job.