On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 00:15:24 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


wrote:

I'm thinking mabee it's time to replace my old fuse panel with a
breaker panel.
Problem is, the new panels are not even a close match to the old
panel. The existing panel is surface mounted with the main switch/fuse
on the left, with the power feed coming in from the back in the lower
corner. All the "load" wires come in the top. They come out through
the plywood service board and then enter thepanel within inches. This
does not allow much flexibility.

Simple, you install a length of wire trough (4" sq x 18" or so) at the
top so all those wires enter into the trough. You mount the new normal
panel about six inches below the trough connected to it with a stub of
2" conduit. All your too short wires that enter the trough are connected
(wire nuts) to new wire that continues down through the conduit to the
new panel and connects normally. You can consolidate the grounds and
carry them down on a single heavy conductor, in fact you can install a
standard accessory ground bar in the trough for that purpose. All of the
neutrals must come down individually same as the hots.

Your power feed can enter the back of the new panel at whatever knockout
is convenient. The panel may be mounted with the main breaker at the top
or bottom, whichever is most convenient, as long as the main breaker is
not over 6' high. If the power feed wires are too short to reach the
main breaker they can be extended with new wire and appropriate
connectors (I like the tubular AL splice connectors with double
setscrews on each side. Remember to apply NoALox compound to those
connections.

I've done a number of load center replacements like this, all inspected
and approved and generally with comments on the neat job.

Here is a similar example: http://wpnet.us/Power/pages/100_3029.htm This
one uses a pull box, but I've used troughs in tighter installations, all
inspected and approved. This particular installation is in a no code
area though, no permits or inspections required. You can also see that
the main breaker in this QO panel operates left/right. The upper right
breaker below the main with the metal frame around it is the back feed
breaker from the generator feed. The SquareD interlock kit installs on
the cover and mechanically interlocks the main and that breaker for a
code compliant generator installation.

OK, Pete I've checked some more and whether I use the QO or the
StabLock, things are NOT going to line up - and I can buy the QO for
$6 more than the StabLok - so it's really no issue price-wise. The
"trough" makes good sense, because IF I put the panel onto the main
feed , the top of the panel is 4 inches lower than the old panel. If I
can have a trough 4 inches high and 3 1/3 inches deep, with knockout
holes made to match the knockouts on the panel at the bottom, and to
match the cable spacing at the top, I can enter my load cables into
the trough with the existing cable clamps, and either pass the wires
through the trough or splice them in the trough, then through to the
panel. If I match drill the trough to fit the panel and use plastic
bushings (made for the purpose - not hardware store grommets or any
such crap) in the holes to pass the wires through, I don't need any
other connectors between the trough and the panel, as long as the
trough is firmly connected to the panel??? I'd "gasket" the trough to
the panel or seal it on with Silicone, as well as bolting it. The
trough face panel would be removeable, making it a legal junction box
or pull box. Does this trough or box need to be a approved (CSA or UL)
unit or can it be a custom fabricated box?? I can have one made up in
stainless or mild steel by a friend quite easily and at reasonable
cost. (we needed a 40-some foot long 8"X18" trough made to run cabling
in a concrete floor last year and they made that one up for us)

As far as StabLock vs QO, copper buss bars ARE more durable than AL,
which tilts in favour of the QO. No stupid home inspector is going to
say (as a lot of others on this list have also (mistakenly in my mind)
said) "that panel is junk and it needs to be replaced" - so I'll
likely "blow the wad" and put in the QO.

The Stab-Lock is outselling the QO about 4:1 right now according to
the clerk, just because the panel is about $6 less, and the breakers
about $1 each less. Seimens and Eaton Cuttler Hammer are both cheaper
( significantly less - like 25% less) - with Eaton being the lowest
cost - but the Stab-Lock is outselling them because of "brand
recognition". All the German customers are buying Siemens for the same
reason- - - -.

The closest I've found so far is a Schnieder StabLok panel, but I
would need to mount it sideways. No problem with the main breaker as
it would be oriented on up, as required by code.

No such code requirement in the US. Many main breakers operate
left/right, not up/down.

The feed would need
to come in through an elbow through the bottom of the box instead of
the back as the new panel is significantly smaller.
I can make all this work - but then half of the load breakers are
upside-down. Don't know if that is an issue here in Canada - aparently
it is not allowed in the USA. I guess I could always restrict myself
to half capacity (use a 40 circuit panel as a 20)

I've never seen a panel installed sideways in the US. Main up or main
down are both very common though.

I recommend using a SquareD QO series panel (not Homeline), they are
about the best available and are all I use for my personal jobs.