"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
wrote:
I don't like spending on "welfare" myself.
Nor do I. I am for spending more to hire investigators and auditors to
find
waste and cheats and deal with them. Harshly.
One of the shots at Medicare "reform" during the Bush years included
Congress specifically funding a troop of FBI agents to deal with nothing
but MCare fraud. The results have been spotty at best.
I guess if we tried it once and it wasn't a blockbuster hit we should just
give up. (-; We've really got that sort of mentality in this country (no
offense). If a TV show isn't an instant hit, cancel it. If a movie doesn't
have people seeing it three times on opening day, it's a flop headed
straight for DVD and cable. And one you should know very well: If a drug
isn't a blockbuster, a pharmaceutical company's stock drops as fast as a
'Jersey Shore' girl's panties.
Not going to happen. Like that movie, those jobs are "Gone, Baby,
Gone."
There doesn't seem to be anything like the PC revolution coming along to
save us this time. Computer technology is one of the few things that
are
basically keeping the US economy afloat:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt...y%20health.png
And also causing us problems. If you look at manufacturing output,
even measured in constant dollars, it has actually gone up since the
80s. What has happened is mfg productivity gains since then have cut the
number of JOBS. We haven't lost nearly as many mfg jobs to the Chinese
as we have to the Robots.
The paradox of productivity. We had better find a way out of this puzzle
before we collapse because without jobs, what will people use to pay for
robot created goods? I see a totally mechanized future where factories
produce stuff, robot consumers buy it, smash it, recycle the pieces so that
more stuff can be made and sold ad infinitum. Robots would never have a
credit crunch or lose faith in the economy and would always do what they are
told. I know because in sixth grade I played the part of Dr. Fabry in
"Rossum's Univeral Robots." (-: And proved to myself that acting was NOT
in my future. It gave me great respect for people who can memorize both
their lines and their cues. It really is a skill/gift or whatever. But as
always, I digress.
stuff snipped
Like Warren Buffet said, government is the only entity large enough to
act
as a counterbalance to the boom/bust cycles that are an inherent part of
capitalism. What we're seeing in the world is the Chinese and Russians
moving away from pure socialism as we move away from pure capitalism.
Everything in moderation comes to mind.
And name one country where the government has actually been able
to act as a counterbalance to the boom and bust cycle? I haven't seen
it.
You're living in one. While it can't affect an instant change, the
government can soften the blow considerably. Without the stimulus spending,
food stamps, Medicare/caid, Headstart, SSA, etc. we would be in far, FAR
worse shape than we are. Ironically, a lot of those payments to the poor
(like Section 8 housing assistance) end up in the hands of middle class
landlords, merchants and service employees (the trickle UP theory). Ending
these programs is going to affect a lot more people than just the poor.
When the economy crashed in the 30's there was real and valid concern that
the nation would go socialist. There's no guarantee that won't happen
again, especially if all those programs are cut to the bone. If God forbid
some white supremacist killed Obama, the country would go up in flames the
next day.
The Federal government may not be the perfect counterbalance, but it's a
hell of lot more effective than anything else except massive wars, and they
counterbalance economic woes by ways that most people don't really want.
Rationing, destruction and killing. Most economists believe that the
stimulus did have an effect and cushioned a lot of the fall. We'll know how
true that is when the stimulus money runs out and Congress stalls on any
jobs package. I'd rather see my tax dollars pay a guy to clear underbrush
or scrape and paint bridges than sit at home collecting unemployment. I
believe our infrastructure was rated a "D" in a recent engineering survey.
We invented the Internet but we're 25th behind S. Korea when it comes to
broadband access.
We're too far distant from WWII for anyone but the very oldest to really
remember how bad that was. I am afraid that's where we are heading. It's
all part of the boom/bust cycle. When a country is "busted" bad enough like
Germany, bad things follow. Lots of the same situations that preceded WWII
are falling into place. The players are different but the issues are the
same: borders, control of resources, monetary woes, etc.
occurs. It's why our manufacturing plants often got broken down and
shipped in crates to China.
Not really. See above.
I believe it's like the issue of "was it Reagan tax cuts or the creation of
an entire new sector of the economy, personal computers, that led to some
very golden years?" It's a little bit of both. You only have to examine
the computer you're typing this on to realize that it's made in China like
so many other things. It's a basic effect of competition. Robots are
expensive. People are actually cheaper in many ways. When it came to
checking out the damage at Fukushima, they didn't send in robots. Too
costly. They sent in people. )-:
When the Republicans regain control, and I think that they will, and
they
are unable to reverse the downward spiral, which I think is also likely,
I
wonder what they'll say?
My guess is that they will do what the Dems are doing now and blame
the other party. Pretty much a given. Don't know why you even bothered
to ask the question (g).
Yeah. But at what point will people realize that those jobs aren't coming
back no matter WHO they vote for? When you're given a pink slip, it doesn't
really matter to you whether it was a Chinese worker or a robot who took
your job. It's gone, baby, gone. Can we keep switching parties forever
before someone notices that the old grey mare, she ain't what she used to be
and some serious change is required?
One possible end to the decline could be when Chinese wages rise to meet the
declining American wages. That's a fugly situation. If I had the heart I'd
take the average world hourly wage and project where the US average might
end up.
--
Bobby G.