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The Ghost in The Machine

On Sep 8, 5:11*pm, Jamie
t wrote:
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

On Sep 8, 2:30 pm, Jamie
t wrote:

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:

On Sep 8, 11:23 am, Jamie
et wrote:

ehsjr wrote:

Jamie wrote:

ehsjr wrote:

NT wrote:

On Sep 2, 8:41 pm, John Fields wrote:

Snipped a lot of repetitious, self serving nonsense.

and if the relay is
designed to operate on AC with a certain RMS current in its
coil, how
can it possibly overheat if that current is DC?

With the same current it wont, with higher curren ti will. IIRC you
proposed using 174v rms,

No, I merely added a capacitor across the output of _your_ proposed
full wave rectified 120 VRMS 60Hz source (170V peak) in order to get
smoothed DC closer to the relay's must-make current.

fwliw I said use diodes, you came back with a FW BR. I dont think it
matters.

---
Then show me your circuit.

Just in case you've forgotten, your suggestion was to use a 240V AC
relay using diodes and 120V mains.
---

that would be ok on your specific relay, but
not a universal solution.

???

Your proposd BR+C delivers the right i for one specific relay. For
some relays it will fry them.

---
Show me.

If you want to go get some specs of other relays, you can. This is
starting to get silly.

Worth investigating, to me. JF gave a specific relay & numbers. *I
tried to find a relay to support the idea that an AC/DC relay would
be happy with DC voltage about 50% of AC rating. *Can you please
provide a reference?

Meanwhile, what I did find was an ap note from Tyco entitled
"Operating DC Relays from AC and Vice-Versa" .
http://relays.te.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3250.pdf

It does not agree with the DC at ~50% of AC rating idea. It uses
the example of a KR series relay coil. Their example uses a 12
volt AC relay fed by DC. *The example states that the "DC voltage
cannot exceed 9.8 volts", and "should not be lower than 7.35 volts".
Thus the DC range would be ~61%(minimum) to ~81% (maximum) of the
12VAC rating.

Extrapolating, it does agree with the idea of BR+C fed by 120 for
the 240 volt relay, insofar as the DC voltage:
~146VDC min to ~194VDC max, which makes the midpoint ~170VDC.
That's very close to ~168 from the BR+C

Regarding coil ratings, I've worked with DC relays, and I've worked
with AC relays, but I haven't worked with AC/DC coil relays, so
I can't speak from experience with them, and I haven't found
anything yet specifically dealing with that, other than the
link I found to Tyco. *So a specific link or links would be
most helpful.

Thanks,
Ed

You must remember that AC coil relays are wound a little different,
its not just induction here. Inter pole windings help keep the AC coil

from chattering the armature. I am sure under DC operation, this may

effect the calculations.

There are some AC coil relays that do not do this and thus the 50%
voltage for DC should come close, but then again, DC R in the coil also
plays a role in this.

Jamie

Your post contains nothing specific and does not address
my question.

I am looking for a specific link or links that shows a datasheet,
ap note, or example of a relay that NT has in mind. Do you have one?

I want specifics, like John Fields posted; the specs that NT
said you could get: "If you want to go get some specs of other
relays, you can." *The specs I have been able to find so far
do not demonstrate what NT was talking about, thus my post
asking for a reference.

Ed

Don't be anal, they make relays that will do AD/DC because they have a
diode imbedded in them. The voltage ratings are the same. The coil is
actually of DC type.. They also have relays with shunt diodes built into
them, for those you need to insure the polarity is correct and are
strictly DC only.

*We also deal with solenoids to operate in the same manner..

Scroll down and read about AC coils, I am sure if you're looking for
some more detailed information you can find it, but this will explain
some of the differences.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6498402_di...elay-coil.html

Jamie

First you tell him not to be anal then you lube him up really good
then you ram your howdy doody linkage , what's up kiddo?
BOOWAHAHA...I JUST HAD TO, YOU HAD TO LOL
MOST UNIVERSAL MODELS ARE SOMEWHAT ERRATIC & DUBIOUS.
EUROS AND AMERICANS WILL ALWAYS BE THEMSELVES, BEST CAN BE DONE IS PUT
TO USE A CONVERTER DEVICE HARMONIC WITH BOTH WAVES PHI's. OR FREQUENCY
TO OR FROM THE INSTINCTIVE DEVICE BE IT AC OR DC *PLAIN COIL OR
CONTACTOR WHICH IS HIS CONUNDRUM.

PLEASE SEND YOUR ARGUMENTS TO WHO GIVES A FLYING ****.COM :-)

TGITM

You must? You read and replied to it. It didn't concern you one bit how
ever, you were interested enough to push those fat fingers along while
burning all those calories sitting on your fat ass, just to post your
dumb ****..

* You are taking up valuable space, move on and allow some one more
deserving to fill that gap.

Jamie

YOU THINK YOU KNOW SOMEONE MORE DESERVING?
**** YOU CUMSHOT..GO POP YOUR LOAD SOMEWHERE ELSE.
TELL YOUR FAT ASS FATHER I AM POSTING HIS NAME AS A REFERNCE ON A
HAUNTED HOUSE I HAVE MY EYES ON......BOOWAHAHAHAHA!
AND DONT ASK ME TO BILL THE GROUP FOR MY SERVICES EITHER.
THIS IS HOW WE DO IT.
PATECUM
TGITM

Useless pond scum..

* jamie

PLEASE HOLD YOUR ANAL EMANATIONS FOR THE REST ROOM, JAMIKA.
YOU STINK !
TGITM