In article ,
"Robert Green" wrote:



Agreed. But the source was the practice of providing outrageously cheap
health care as a way to circumvent the WWII wage freeze that began the
problem. It's another of the many *gifts* that wars keep on giving us.
Once it got established, it was very hard to put the brakes on it.
Actually it was a government expedience, and those hardly ever go
wrong (grin).



Is that working Americans? Retirees? Out of work people? I haven't seen a
detailed study of medical cost issues that didn't have structural "issues"
you could drive a Mack truck through.
That is the annual report(s) from the Office of the Actuary on ALL
healthcare expenditures in the US of A. Working, out of work, retired,
child and man. The whole enchilada.

The way the health care system is
arranged if you DON'T belong to an organization like Carefirst or even
Medicare, you'll pay the full freight for your medical care, including the
outrageously kited prices of medicines, fees and DME that in many cases
doubled before the RX portion of Medicare started up. Sure you can offer
the government "great" prices on drugs after you've raised them enormously.
Europeans pay less (up to 40% less!) for American drugs than Americans do.
How is that right? Why am *I* subsidizing Europeans?

http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/eu...u-s/2009-07-08

As much as it pains me deeply to say this, I have seen bunches of
studies that suggest we are not subsidizing anyone. I have had rather
large knock-down-drag-outs with people when I suggest that we are, but
studies don't suggest that. They seem to indicate that the pharm settle
for less profits elsewhere. What nobody has been able to explain is why
that isn't subsidization...


Why do seniors have to take buses to Canada to buy medicine there? There's
a lot wrong with American medicine, and much of it starts with Big Pharma
and trickles down. Anyone who's ever seen the liner of a garbage dump knows
that what trickles down is NOT good stuff.
Canada has price controls for brand medicines. They just say what
they will pay. Some drugs aren't available in Canada because of this.
Interestingly, generics are actually much cheaper in the US than Canada
largely because they aren't price controlled in the Great White North.




When things are subsidized to such a great extent, then all
sorts of weird things happen to demand and supply. That and for awhile
(in one of the great ironies of the latter 20th century) it was actually
cheaper to give better health insurance than to actually pay a similar
wage.

As a result of many factors, but all started in WWII to evade wage controls.

Not really. It all started in WWII so the government could buy off the
workers who were getting restless under the wage and price controls.
Paying for health care wasn't really violating these controls (nudge,
nudge, wink, wink). Not evading when the government itself gives you
the out.
Actually the real problems did not really start until the 60s. In
1960 the o-o-p expense for healthcare (from earlier versions of the
healthcare expenditures study) stood at 50%. Now it is less than 20%
that I actually delve into my own pocket to pay for. As the o-o-p
expense from healthcare made that drop, the %age of GDP towards
healthcare rose in tandem. Coincidence? I think not.


Are all Major Med/high deductible policies gone? As I noted before, if
you're not in a big plan like Carefirst aka Blue Double Cross or Medicare,
you pay full (highly inflated) rates for drugs, DME and medical fees. Many
people I know express awe when they see the numbers for "rate charged" and
"rate negotiated" on their statements because they are so radically
different.


Yet nobody is on awe of the difference between street price and msrp
for cars, electronics, etc. Heck even most of the uninsured don't even
pay those prices.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz