On 2011-07-26, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:59:50 -0500, Ignoramus2004
wrote:

A company is offering to sell me some Cincinnati #2 tool and cutter
grinders.

I looked on ebay and I see a lot of dreamers hoping to get a lot of
money for them, but no actual sales.

This is a little bit of a giveaway to the situation, but I want to ask
anyway, how much are those things worth?

Also, how can I ascertain their condition?

i

Ive bought and sold a few over the last couple years...and they are
getting harder and harder to sell. The first couple sold for $2500
The second bunch went for $1500....

The last batch sold for $800....

See a trend here?

As for condition...that can be quite an excercise in using .0001 dial
indicators and magnetic bases and........

The reason you dont see any actual sales..is that most shops are now
using carbide insert tooling and there are far far far fewer shops still
in business.

A T&C grinder is a great thing to have, unless you are engaged in
production machining..and insert tooling is far cheaper than having your
tools ground.

Custom grinds...are becoming harder to justify as well, particularly in
milling as insert milling cutters are available for just about any sort
of cut you might do. Bout the only thing I see ground these days is
cheap form tools used in second ops lathes..by shops too small to buy
cnc machines.

Ive got a KO Lee B300, with every accessory they made. And it was
given to me by a big production shop that found it to be in their way.
Insert tooling is all they use.
Excellent shape and a joy to use.
About 3 times a year.

Shrug



Gunner

In addition to Gunner's comments, a T&C grinder, as has already been
mentioned by Karl, borders on being worthless without extensive tooling.
With one, assuming one understands proper operation (not easily learned
because precious little is in print) a great deal can be accomplished, in
particular for the home shop type, who often lacks the necessary skills to
grind proper tools for various operations on the lathe and/or mill. They
demand a reasonable amount of room, and may be considered wasteful for the
guy with a small shop, limited in space.

Value?
I purchased one last fall, reasonable condition, partially tooled, but only
the center set is complete. The indexing head lacks the indexing pin
device, and the air spindle (for sharpening the periphery of end mills) is
missing components. No vice. I paid $600. I feel it was a reasonable
price. They are exceedingly difficult to sell, for the reasons mentioned
by Gunner----plus precious few really understand their (proper) operation.
Most machinists that have the required skills were trained on the job by
talented mentors. They are a classic example of a machine that no longer
is useful in modern machine shops. Shades of shapers of long ago.

Harold


Harold, after looking at them, I agree. The pro T&C sharpening
businesses run CNC grinders nowadays.

I mean, the business that I visited yesterday IS a T&C grinding
company. They know how to run those Cincinnatis. And yet they are
dumping them for nothing.

i