On Jul 11, 9:22*pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
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*"Ed Huntress" wrote:





"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
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"anorton" wrote:

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
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Over the last year or so, my Bosch dishwasher (installed in 1999 or
so)
started to smell skunky, although it still seemed to clean OK if not
as
well as when new. *This slowly worsened, and I started haunting the
appliance repair sites.

The main suggestions were to not use so much soap (helped slightly),
run
a cycle with a cup of vinegar in the water (worked for two days),
and
(quite oddly) don't rinse the plates off before putting them in the
dishwasher. *All in all, the washer had worked just fine for years,
and
none of these are a solution, so kept looking.

Then I happened on an article in an electronics trade rag (Bob
Pease's
column in "Electronic Design" magazine, 5 May 2011, page 104)
pointing
out that all the phosphate had just been removed from dishwasher
detergents, and this was causing problems. *Hmm. *Phosphates were
always
considered essential when I was growing up. *What changed?

Using phosphate and dishwasher together as a google search term soon
led
to the answer, with tale after tale of dishwashers that no longer
work,
of people buying new dishwashers to no avail ... could this be the
reason?

What changed is that the EPA forced the makers of household
dishwasher
detergents to eliminate all phosphates, despite the fact the
phosphate
fertilizer is still used by the ton. *(Restaurants can still get the
phosphate stuff.)

Anyway, the suggested standard solution is to add your own
phosphate,
and it takes very little to solve the problem - phosphate was about
5%
of the mix in the pre-EPA days. *In my Bosch, the usual soap load is
maybe a tablespoon or a bit more of Cascade, to which I add
literally
one pinch of Trisodium Phosphate. *Swampy smells are gone.

There is however one thing to be careful of: *Not everything sold as
"TSP" is in fact Trisodium Phosphate these days. *I have some "TSP"
that
was sold to me as Trisodium Phosphate but in fact is Sodium
Silicate,
which will not work, and may cause damage (the package warns about
etching glass). *So, read the box carefully. *If it does not come
out
and clearly say that it is Trisodium Phosphate, it probably isn't.
It's
best to buy Trisodium Phosphate in a real paint store.

For some background, see
http://www.appliance.net/2010/states...n-dishwasher-s
oap
-1988

Joe Gwinn

If you have a swampy smell, there is some sort of decaying matter
causing
it. *I do not know about Bosch, but in my Kenmore there is a coarse
grate
above the macerator, a slight finer grate next to the macerator blade
,
and
a fine screen to filter recirculated water. All of these can trap
chunks
of
food, especially fibrous stuff. I have to take it apart and clean them
now
and then.

I did look - they were all clean, mostly because I pre-rinse the heavy
stuff right into the disposal.

Joe Gwinn

FWIW, we're having exactly the same smell problem with our dishwasher,
and I
haven't be able to figure it out for months. Now that you've filled us
in,
I'm going to try some TSP in that machine, as well as in my clothes
washer.

Bingo! *It takes two maybe three washes to achieve full effect. *I
assume that this is to clean out the hoses et al. *I started with a far
heavier dose, but had some lime deposits that were later cleaned off with
Bon-Ami and a rag.

Also, I came upon the following article:

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html

Well, that's darned interesting. Reading about the complications of finding
substitutes reminds me of the things those Oakite engineers were talking
about.

So, I have a load in the dishwasher, and my box of TSP is handy. I'll give
it a try. Thanks for all the info, Joe.

Welcome.

Do you think it's time to storm the EPA?

The basic problem is that they don't know when to just stop, declare
victory, and move on.

Joe Gwinn- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Take a look at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_zone_(ecology)

The problem is not yet solved...just reduced.

TMT