Home Guy wrote:
mike used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily
full-quoting:

You're pushing a very big rock up a hill to nowhere.

I should not see a huge spike in monthly usage during a month when our
hvac usage is practically zero. Investigating the reasons for this
spike is not path to nowhere.

Investigating is good. The method you're using is the rock
to nowhere.
Get a tool that can do the job...and he works for the power company.


Your meter will give you little useful information.

An unnecessarily dramatic statement.

To say that a clamp-on amp meter can't give useful information is
hyperbole.

You need to KNOW the phase.

To the extent that my aggregate power factor is less than .95 or .9,
yes, then I need to know the phase.

Are you suggesting that my effective power factor is likely to be less
than .9?

Yes, I am.
If you have a bunch of CFL lights and nothing else running, your
aggregate PF can be 0.6.
During the day, when the lights are off and motors are running, it
might be 0.6 in the other direction. The power meter only cares about
what's happening NOW.
There's a lot of legislation in place or on the way to make NEW
stuff do internal power factor correction. But it's gonna take a while
to make a difference.
Power factor is a mythical number that assumes that voltage and current
are both perfect sine waves that are out of phase.
Take a look at the load from your computer. You might find that
it's a bunch of narrow spikes that bear no resemblance to sine waves.
A "kill a watt" meter will give you a power factor number, but the
crest factor may be WAY bigger than 1.

The only number that makes ANY difference is the one after the $ on your
bill.

Quit messing around and get the power company out to look at it.
Show them the evidence you're bitching about here. Only they can
do anything about it.


What is the power factor of 10 to 20 year-old florescent lamp ballasts?
Or a 1 hp, 220 VAC fan motor? Or a 10 year old refridgerator? Or a
typical desktop PC power supply?

Those are the largest (and probably only) non-resistive loads in
question here.

Why do you care?

Because I pay the bills. What a stupid ass question that was.

If you think the equipment is faulty, you should enlist the power
company.

I've already stated that I've contacted them, and that I expect to
encounter difficulty in having them ever admit that their metering
equipment could be faulty or even undertake a process to evaluate the
meter, but I will pursue every course of action and give them every
chance to determine that.

I've found 'em to be very knowledgeable and helpful.

In the pages and pages of materials and contracts that exist for this
utility, describing all manner of service obligation and liability,
billing, etc, I find nothing in print that defines a process whereby a
billing meter is tested or what is done if a meter is found to be
defective.

There is absolutely nothing I can find in writing even contemplating the
possibility of a meter that does not measure correctly.

What's on the paper is inconsequential until you get into a court of law.
Fret over that when it happens.
CALL THE POWER COMPANY...you don't appear to have the skills or
equipment to make a challenge.


I believe that issue is a political "hot potatoe" for all municipal
electricity suppliers, something they'd rather not have to deal with and
hence they largely remain silent about it.

If you think they're intentionally screwing you,

I believe that they never "intentionally" screw anyone, but that instead
they put up a front that their meters are always correct, all the time,
and reinforce that by not mentioning the possibility of erroneous meter
operation anywhere in any printed material they make available, let
alone define in writing a process or methods to test a meter that the
client believes is suspect.

Measuring VA is an exercise in futility.

The worst I can do by measuring VA is to OVER-ESTIMATE my watts used by
5 or 10% - unless you think it's likely that my aggregate power factor
is less than 90%.

Your "finger" ain't gonna hold up in court anyway.

Making my own measurements would be a first-step. I never said I'd use
those measurement in court (that is your hyperbole again).

It's my assertion that GETTING THE POWER COMPANY TO INVESTIGATE
is the first step.
The second step is to call whatever agency regulates the power company.
Attempting to measure it yourself is way down the list. You ain't got the
equipment to prove 'em wrong.

If indeed it got that far, then I would investigate my options have
having an acredited third-party measurement performed, and that would
only happen if my local utility did not perform their own tests that I
was satisfied was unbiased and accurate.